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Kyosho hits a new low = poor quality control + beware of NewAce


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#26 OFFLINE   b-ry89

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Posted 03 July 2010 - 09:24 AM

This is weird because I haven't gotten any "factory flawed" models from Kyosho. I've gotten a few "minor flawed" models from AUTOArt, but nothing major.
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#27 OFFLINE   Diecast24/7

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Posted 03 July 2010 - 11:00 AM

View Postb-ry89, on 03 July 2010 - 09:24 AM, said:

This is weird because I haven't gotten any "factory flawed" models from Kyosho. I've gotten a few "minor flawed" models from AUTOArt, but nothing major.


I'm not saying this about the OP, but we've probably all noticed that specific collectors seem to have the vast majority of problems with defects and flaws. I've had years of training taking orders over the phone and can spot problem customers a mile off. Some collectors literally get magnifying glasses out and inspect every facet of a model in anticipation of issues and then almost seem relieved and happy when they finally find something they can complain about. There is a blacklist among the diecast dealers I know and we share names of people who will, without a doubt, scream and complain and accuse over every single order they place, demanding partial credits and call tags and refunds, etc. I even had a guy one time throw a major fit about some Ertl Road Runner model we sent him. So I sent a replacement and a call tag for the defective item. Got it back and it was a model we had never even sold before. So he thought he'd switch his old broken model out with my new one, and have me pay the shipping both ways at that! Posted Image

The moral of the story is this: you can find problems with every diecast piece you ever get if you're determined enough.
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#28 OFFLINE   BMWE90

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Posted 03 July 2010 - 08:52 PM

View Postb-ry89, on 03 July 2010 - 09:24 AM, said:

This is weird because I haven't gotten any "factory flawed" models from Kyosho. I've gotten a few "minor flawed" models from AUTOArt, but nothing major.

Consider yourself lucky?  If you read some of the replies, people are admitting that Kyosho is on the decline in QC.  

Of course, I cannot stop anyone from buying Kyoshos but hope everyone acknowledges the problem does exist.

Anyways, I picked up two Autoart Porsches 997 GT3 RS 3 months ago and surprisingly, I have no problems.  I would consider myself very lucky.
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#29 OFFLINE   BMWE90

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Posted 03 July 2010 - 09:15 PM

Wow, surprisingly, I highly doubt any collectors in this forum would be "relieved" to find a problem in the their models.  I would be annoyed and disappointed like some of the posters replies.  Unfortunately, most times you cannot return or exchange models or shipping it back is too costly.  

I would say extremely bad customers are very rare and its all part of business to have a maybe less than 5% extremely bad customers.  Businesses start to fail when they shove defective products to customers and not accepting any responsibilities.  The customer you mentioned who would continously buy and complain about EVERY single order from you is a customer who does it for fun and that is different.  Heck, you could say he didn't learn his lesson when he constantly received those so called "defective" models.  I would definitely stop buying from the same shop if the second replacement had problems too.

Well Justin, I would say you are different than other people.  Most people who pay 100 dollars would quickly inspect the model once they receive it and not just turn a blind eye and place on the shelf and happily be out 100 dollars.

What more can I say? Maisto constantly keeps improving while those so called premium diecast companies keeps sinking with prices flying,

I mean why do we collectors have to pay and have to worry about whether the next model will come in "good condition"?

View PostDiecast24/7, on 03 July 2010 - 11:00 AM, said:

I'm not saying this about the OP, but we've probably all noticed that specific collectors seem to have the vast majority of problems with defects and flaws. I've had years of training taking orders over the phone and can spot problem customers a mile off. Some collectors literally get magnifying glasses out and inspect every facet of a model in anticipation of issues and then almost seem relieved and happy when they finally find something they can complain about. There is a blacklist among the diecast dealers I know and we share names of people who will, without a doubt, scream and complain and accuse over every single order they place, demanding partial credits and call tags and refunds, etc. I even had a guy one time throw a major fit about some Ertl Road Runner model we sent him. So I sent a replacement and a call tag for the defective item. Got it back and it was a model we had never even sold before. So he thought he'd switch his old broken model out with my new one, and have me pay the shipping both ways at that! Posted Image

The moral of the story is this: you can find problems with every diecast piece you ever get if you're determined enough.

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#30 OFFLINE   mairandeddy

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Posted 04 July 2010 - 06:19 AM

View PostDiecast24/7, on 03 July 2010 - 11:00 AM, said:

The moral of the story is this: you can find problems with every diecast piece you ever get if you're determined enough.

Thousand percent agree Justin...  :occasion14:

I buy a lot from abroad and therefore almost always the return charges are prohibitive.

Mostly i intend to keep the model until my earthly demise, so no doubt when my offspring do their yard sale they will have to source all the dessicated replacement tyres etc. etc.  to make the models presentable..!!  :wavetowel2:

Therefore i tend to take as i find...it's almost like part of the thrill!!  :Jka:

I must say that to date very few 'significant' faults have befallen me, but as you say that is quite subjective - and in those few cases i've been able to resolve amicably with the vendor   :lol:

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#31 OFFLINE   VeeDub Matt

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 04:10 PM

View PostDiecast24/7, on 03 July 2010 - 11:00 AM, said:

I'm not saying this about the OP, but we've probably all noticed that specific collectors seem to have the vast majority of problems with defects and flaws. I've had years of training taking orders over the phone and can spot problem customers a mile off. Some collectors literally get magnifying glasses out and inspect every facet of a model in anticipation of issues and then almost seem relieved and happy when they finally find something they can complain about. There is a blacklist among the diecast dealers I know and we share names of people who will, without a doubt, scream and complain and accuse over every single order they place, demanding partial credits and call tags and refunds, etc. I even had a guy one time throw a major fit about some Ertl Road Runner model we sent him. So I sent a replacement and a call tag for the defective item. Got it back and it was a model we had never even sold before. So he thought he'd switch his old broken model out with my new one, and have me pay the shipping both ways at that! Posted Image

The moral of the story is this: you can find problems with every diecast piece you ever get if you're determined enough.

Well said. Unfortunately, this type of "customer" is everywhere! Heck, there's a guy at work who attempted to get a free can of Coka~Cola from the man who refills the soda vending machines by complaining that the can of Coke he purchased from the machine a week ago was too hot to drink; therefore, my co-worker attempted to convince the vending machine man that he was owed a free can of Coke! The vending machine man just gave my co-worker a blank expression and walked away.Posted Image

Edited by Biblitect, 06 July 2010 - 04:12 PM.


#32 OFFLINE   Diecast24/7

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 04:31 PM

View PostBMWE90, on 03 July 2010 - 09:15 PM, said:

Wow, surprisingly, I highly doubt any collectors in this forum would be "relieved" to find a problem in the their models.  I would be annoyed and disappointed like some of the posters replies.  Unfortunately, most times you cannot return or exchange models or shipping it back is too costly.  

I would say extremely bad customers are very rare and its all part of business to have a maybe less than 5% extremely bad customers.  Businesses start to fail when they shove defective products to customers and not accepting any responsibilities.  The customer you mentioned who would continously buy and complain about EVERY single order from you is a customer who does it for fun and that is different.  Heck, you could say he didn't learn his lesson when he constantly received those so called "defective" models.  I would definitely stop buying from the same shop if the second replacement had problems too.

Well Justin, I would say you are different than other people.  Most people who pay 100 dollars would quickly inspect the model once they receive it and not just turn a blind eye and place on the shelf and happily be out 100 dollars.

What more can I say? Maisto constantly keeps improving while those so called premium diecast companies keeps sinking with prices flying,

I mean why do we collectors have to pay and have to worry about whether the next model will come in "good condition"?




WTF are you talking about?

I've been in this business every single day since 1999 and have had experiences with literally tens of thousands of customers all over the world. You're simply speculating about something you obviously have no idea about.

Quote

I would say extremely bad customers are very rare and its all part of business to have a maybe less than 5% extremely bad customers.

Now there's some real scientific data for you. Are you including yourself in that 5%?

View PostBMWE90, on 03 July 2010 - 08:52 PM, said:

Consider yourself lucky?  If you read some of the replies, people are admitting that Kyosho is on the decline in QC.  

Of course, I cannot stop anyone from buying Kyoshos but hope everyone acknowledges the problem does exist.

Anyways, I picked up two Autoart Porsches 997 GT3 RS 3 months ago and surprisingly, I have no problems.  I would consider myself very lucky.


Then stop trying so hard! And why are you surprised that you had no problems with the AAs unless you were anticipating problems?
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#33 OFFLINE   Derby

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 03:23 PM

View PostDiecast24/7, on 03 July 2010 - 11:00 AM, said:

I'm not saying this about the OP, but we've probably all noticed that specific collectors seem to have the vast majority of problems with defects and flaws. I've had years of training taking orders over the phone and can spot problem customers a mile off. Some collectors literally get magnifying glasses out and inspect every facet of a model in anticipation of issues and then almost seem relieved and happy when they finally find something they can complain about. There is a blacklist among the diecast dealers I know and we share names of people who will, without a doubt, scream and complain and accuse over every single order they place, demanding partial credits and call tags and refunds, etc. I even had a guy one time throw a major fit about some Ertl Road Runner model we sent him. So I sent a replacement and a call tag for the defective item. Got it back and it was a model we had never even sold before. So he thought he'd switch his old broken model out with my new one, and have me pay the shipping both ways at that! Posted Image

The moral of the story is this: you can find problems with every diecast piece you ever get if you're determined enough.

which is where the saying "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" comes in so handy

#34 OFFLINE   Diecast24/7

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 03:39 PM

View PostDerby, on 07 July 2010 - 03:23 PM, said:

which is where the saying "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" comes in so handy


Some people honestly believe that their purchase entitles them to act any way they want. I've had several people over the years respond with shock and dismay when I politely told them we weren't interested in doing business with them anymore. Others think that the simple fact that they purchased a toy from you entitles them to have the priviledge of verbally abusing, insulting and berating you. I've had more than one girl go home early in tears cause some asshole thought his $19.99 Maisto purchase meant he could humiliate them. People are amazing!
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Posted 07 July 2010 - 03:46 PM

Amen, Justin.

They're model cars. Pull out the cyanoacrylate and reglue the thing that came off.

If you got a great deal, you should be happy if the model displays well on a shelf, not scrutinizing for every little thing that might be wrong.

#36 OFFLINE   Cyberben

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 07:37 AM

I think it's all part of the game...it happens in almost all commodities particularly in collectibles. Imagine, sometimes real cars have defects what more on toys :) Although I understand the frustration, it happened to me couple of times already in my statue collecting. Good thing though they were replaced. I guess it all boils down to the maker's replacement process, it's always about the after-sale support that gains customer loyalty. Let's just hope someone from Kyosho sees the post here and do something about improving their customer service process. My situation is more difficult, I don't think we have a local dealer here so I'll probably buy online everytime and just hope it comes in mint :)

#37 OFFLINE   Kavinsky

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 04:08 AM

I dont doubt this but well who are the alternatives for good 1/18's for 70 - 120 bucks besides kyosho and autoart?

#38 OFFLINE   mairandeddy

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 06:54 AM

View PostKavinsky, on 17 July 2010 - 04:08 AM, said:

I dont doubt this but well who are the alternatives for good 1/18's for 70 - 120 bucks besides kyosho and autoart?


You can pick up a lot of GMPs for this money Kavinsky, quality is great but the range is a bit limited, and also Sunstar and Highway61 have some really good models - but you must check them out first as they can be hit and miss  :occasion14:

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#39 OFFLINE   Kaiser Technica

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 12:32 PM

OK regarding Kyosho's quality woes, am I crazy, or is there some kind of problem with how the R8's engine cover fits? There's a slight dip behind the roof where there's supposed to be a brake indicator, but for some reason, even though the cover fits in perfectly, the edge of the rear window is a very noticeable diagonal running from one side to the other, covering up the indicator (I don't have a model as an example, unfortunately). It's as though the entire panel is just warped, because it's not that the window is raised out of its fixing. It's the shape of the fixing itself. I've seen this on numerous R8 models, and it's made me wary of buying a V10 version, which is really annoying, as this is one of my favorite cars to have a diecast for.

Edited by Kaiser Technica, 02 August 2010 - 12:33 PM.


#40 OFFLINE   S40

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 11:13 PM

Yeah, I've noticed the same issue with the third brake light on my R8s. They molded it incorrectly it seems.

#41 OFFLINE   red-mosquito

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 08:40 AM

well my R35 kyosho hood stand snapped out even though im not playing it

#42 OFFLINE   Craig

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 09:05 AM

Nice random bumpage ;)


Anyway, I have a lot of Kyoshos, I do agree with Justin though, at the end of the day, some people are so anal about things.

I've had a two cars with problems, one wnet back the other I kept as the dealer offered me a part refund for it, one headlight lense was randomly inside the car & the cars centre arm rest wasn't fixed to the car.

The 'high end' Ferrari F40 I had was complete crap, to be honest though I think I'd been sold a display piece from a shop.

I'll not stop buying their products though. As for Newace - I've had a fair few times from them, never a problem at all.

Edited by Craig T, 25 May 2011 - 10:13 AM.

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#43 OFFLINE   preisman

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 09:59 AM

Never thought there were so many "issues" with Kyosho. While Ido not see a high volume as some people the 2 I have are fantastic. No issues, nothing missing (that I know of), no flaws in the paint. NOTHING. I am very happy with the two that I have and don't see myself not getting any more any time soon.

Kind of interesting on the R8 third brake light. I plan on buying a drop top so this won't be an issue for myself.  I'll have to look through some photos to see what they are talking about.

#44 OFFLINE   UDPride

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 10:08 AM

I guess Ive been pretty fortunate as most of my AAs and Kyoshos arrived without a problem and I have a cpl dozen of each. The one manufacturer that always seems to have a part loose like a fender or some metal trim is Highway 61. I buy superglue by the gross just for H61s. But I still like Highway 61 overall. They are very good value for not TOO much hassle.

I must say whenever a GMP or Lane arrives, they always seem built the best when I hold them in my hands. Thick glossy paint, and heavy, cast metal. They feel like they will last 50 years.  The Exotos and CMCs are more intricate. Just as nice or nicer, but you have to be more gentle with them. With a GMP or Lane I think I could drop one and it could break my toe, instead of breaking my die-cast.
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#45 OFFLINE   Super Snail

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 08:46 PM

That's a bit extreme giving up a hobby due to one model be faulty. Every model manufacturer will at some time produce a defect model, as humans we make mistakes. I have in my collection CMC, Exoto, Minichamps, AUTOart etc and I don't think that there is a company were at some time I did not get a defect model.
How the company then acts is important, and you seam to have been treated badly over this matter, can I ask why both the manufacturer and shop not exchange it? Just how bad is the damage, I do not know you from Adam but could your sites on perfection just be a little too high, but if its only minor have you tried "T" cut to remove it.Is it that important for the trunk lid to sat open. I do understand that these can some times be a little bit of an anti climax as you expect a model to be perfect but its some times its just not possible.
I have a friend whom is a rivet counter in the first degree several shop will not sell a model to him over some of the problems he as caused them in the past. It’s nothing for him to go into a shop and have every one of the models out of the box to check it and has even been known to swap the box for another over some little mark. If it’s a deep scratch I can understand your problem.  Sorry if I sound high and mighty but I have sat in a friend shop when people have returned models and can not see the problem, once all Tim did was to walk into the back of the shop and return with the same model for the gentleman to be happy with a perfect model not knowing it had not been changed. Tim used to sell Action NASCAR's models and one custome returned in person with two he had ordered as it was faulty as the doors did not open? We tried to explain that the doors on this type of racer were sealed but he would have none of it and expected his money back even though he did not return the limited edtion CoA's with them. He was refuse until he returned the certificates, we later found out through another trader that he had purchased two others off e-bay with out the certificates and was trying to obtain them. The models or certificates were never returned afterwards I wonder why.There are a few coustome out there that you just don't want to meet!

Edited by Super Snail, 25 May 2011 - 09:01 PM.

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#46 OFFLINE   Jon Mopar

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 09:52 PM

View PostDiecast24/7, on 07 July 2010 - 03:39 PM, said:

Some people honestly believe that their purchase entitles them to act any way they want. I've had several people over the years respond with shock and dismay when I politely told them we weren't interested in doing business with them anymore. Others think that the simple fact that they purchased a toy from you entitles them to have the priviledge of verbally abusing, insulting and berating you. I've had more than one girl go home early in tears cause some asshole thought his $19.99 Maisto purchase meant he could humiliate them. People are amazing!


sometimes it's the customer that should be fired I guess lol. In all seriousness, I've read several posts in regards to QC, and am astonished at how bad some people take flaws. While sometimes it's justified, many members here are super picky about small stuff (the funny thing is I could likely pick out even bigger flaws, like inaccuracies, in some of their most beloved cars). What I find mildly amusing are the ones that say they plan on quitting the hobby all together because of these issues. Although I understand how much it sucks to spend your hard earned dollars on something that's not 100% perfect in your eyes, if you're driven over the edge because of occasional QC problems, you are collecting for all the wrong reasons. No longer is it a fun hobby at that point. I've also noticed that many individuals who are very OCD with diecast collecting, are often not really "car people" at all. Their focus is merely on the sheer number of parts and craftsmanship, rather than what their diecast represents (for them, I would suggest maybe collecting swiss watches instead??). I have found that when you stretch your budget thin, spending more than perhaps you should, you tend to expect more because of it.

While Im all for perfection, Im a realist. I believe collectors must have reasonable expectations, and above all should just have fun. Perhaps focus less attention on getting the latest, and more on what you're actually collecting. Get educated on the 1:1 versions, so when you finally get your hands on the scale versions, you can appreciate them on another level, regardless of how much or how little detail they have. This coming from a guy that has spent anywhere from $1 to 1k+ for a diecast. Just my .2cents

Edited by Jon Mopar, 25 May 2011 - 10:03 PM.

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#47 OFFLINE   littlerockshhd

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 10:39 PM

Not wanting to gang up on you or anything but, ....Would you stop eating beef, because Burger King's got bad costumer service??? LOL  Did you overreact like that with the seller ??? If you flew off the handle from the word go, chances are you ruined any chance of them helping you.....Also, like many folks have already said "The customer is always right" is an add solgan....not the truth. The worst customers love to scream that, when you say "NO" to some crazy demand.. Just look at some of the reason people leave bad feedback on ebay. "I didn't like the wheels" is one of my personsal favorites. LOL!!! How is that the sellers fault?....or how about "The bumper came off"...sounds like the shipper to me, not the seller....Also think about this, most of those guys charge 39. 00 or so dollars for shipping. So once they pay for the return shipping on the bad model and ship you a new one. thats nearly what you paid to start with....do the math....Most likely the seller is not going to take the hit on that, for a somewhat minor flaw, or a factory related issue. ...Just my 2 cent worth on a old thread.  :wavetowel2:

Edited by littlerockshhd, 25 May 2011 - 10:40 PM.


#48 OFFLINE   ciprian

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 01:32 AM

View PostJon Mopar, on 25 May 2011 - 09:52 PM, said:


sometimes it's the customer that should be fired I guess lol. In all seriousness, I've read several posts in regards to QC, and am astonished at how bad some people take flaws. While sometimes it's justified, many members here are super picky about small stuff (the funny thing is I could likely pick out even bigger flaws, like inaccuracies, in some of their most beloved cars). What I find mildly amusing are the ones that say they plan on quitting the hobby all together because of these issues. Although I understand how much it sucks to spend your hard earned dollars on something that's not 100% perfect in your eyes, if you're driven over the edge because of occasional QC problems, you are collecting for all the wrong reasons. No longer is it a fun hobby at that point. I've also noticed that many individuals who are very OCD with diecast collecting, are often not really "car people" at all. Their focus is merely on the sheer number of parts and craftsmanship, rather than what their diecast represents (for them, I would suggest maybe collecting swiss watches instead??). I have found that when you stretch your budget thin, spending more than perhaps you should, you tend to expect more because of it.

While Im all for perfection, Im a realist. I believe collectors must have reasonable expectations, and above all should just have fun. Perhaps focus less attention on getting the latest, and more on what you're actually collecting. Get educated on the 1:1 versions, so when you finally get your hands on the scale versions, you can appreciate them on another level, regardless of how much or how little detail they have. This coming from a guy that has spent anywhere from $1 to 1k+ for a diecast. Just my .2cents

Very good point, you are so right Mr.Mopar  :wavetowel2:

Also, one collector can avoid heavy deception by educating themselves on the 1:1 and some easy search regarding the similar modelcar they intend to buy. Most of the time, information and pictures can be found at every step, and this is why we have diecast forums.

Edited by ciprian, 26 May 2011 - 01:35 AM.

"If i can come up with a better mousetrap that is within the regulations, i ought to be allowed to use it", Jim Hall




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