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Exoto spare parts & shipping...


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#1 OFFLINE   LUW

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 08:19 PM

Some of you may remember JRO asking about some parts (a headlight, to be more specific) that was missing from his Daytona Coupe "Ford of France". I'm posting this because he will be away until next Monday, so he asked me to post it.

Well, he was looking for this headlight. One or two weeks ago he bought a Ford of France that had only one headlight. He bought it from Brazil's best known dealer, and of my colection at least 20% was bought there. We both know the owner and the guy is a top notch person. He (the dealer) bought this model directly from Exoto, and recieved it deffective. Since it would be an ENORMOUS hassle to return the model, he kept it, and offered it for for sale for half the price, since it was deffective. Nobody wanted but JRO decided to take it. Of course the 1st thing JRO did when he got the Daytona Coupe was ask Exoto about th part. Here are the e-mails.

Quote

-----Original Message-----
From: Exoto [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 6:43 PM
To: ******@exoto.com
Subject: Exoto.com Feedback: General Inquiries


General Inquiries

Mr. JOSE RODRIGO OCTAVIO
[email protected]

Comments:
I live at Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, and I have some Exoto models collection - 4 Porsches, 2 Cobras Daytonas, 1 GT40, 1 Ferrari F1, 1 Corvette GS.
Last week I bought (brand new) another Cobra Daytona model, the white #56.
The model has some missing parts:
1-The right headlight,
2-The right headlight transparent cover,
3-The right headlight cover that stays inside the hood - a black cover with a red cable

Did you have those parts to send it to me?
Kind regards, Jose Rodrigo Octavio
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From: "Jack" *******@exoto.com

To: [email protected]

Copy:

Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 16:41:05 -0700

Assunto: RE: Exoto.com Feedback: General Inquiries

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your email.

Did you purchase those models directly from us? if so, resend this email  with the invoice number.

Thank you,

Jack Pierre Keusseyan
Executive Vice President
Exoto Inc.
5440 Atlantis Court
Moorpark, CA 93021-7101
United States of America

Tel: ***************
Fax: ***************
email: **************
www.exoto.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: zerodrigo [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2005 3:55 PM
To: jackk
Subject: En:RE: Exoto.com Feedback: General Inquiries


Dear Jack,

I bought that model (brand new) in this condition.
I bought it at store here in Brazil for half of the normal price knowing about those missing parts.
The front wheels steering arm where disconnected, but the missing parts are more important.
It is possible for you to sell, and send, those parts to me, here in Rio de Janeiro - Brazil?

Kind regards,

José Rodrigo Octavio
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message -----
From: Jack
To: zerodrigo
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 5:47 PM
Subject: RE: RE: Exoto.com Feedback: General Inquiries


Dear Sir,

Sorry, at this time we do not have the parts. Even if we arrange you the parts, the cost will be about US$50.00 + US$85.00 for UPS shipping. We can ship it US Mail but we do not guarantee delivery or if the parts are stolen at your Brazilian customs. I say this because we had many problems shipping to your country with US Mail and not to another country. With UPS is is safer and No parts will be lost.

Please let me know if you accept the costs, so that we may contact you as soon as we have the parts for you.

Thank you,

Jack Pierre Keusseyan
Executive Vice President
Exoto Inc.
5440 Atlantis Court
Moorpark, CA 93021-7101
United States of America

Tel: ***************
Fax: ****************
email: ****************
www.exoto.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: JRO [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 3:09 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: RE: Exoto.com Feedback: General Inquiries


Dear Sir,

Thank you very much for your kind answer, but 50 dollars for three small plastic parts (the headlight transparent cover, the headlight itsef and the black inside cover) are a bit more than I expected to pay, and plus your UPS shipping the total will be almost the same money that I can use to buy a new Exoto model.
If I were you, I will send those parts free, because the car that I bought here was a perfect example of a production fault at Exoto factory.
I have to say that I love Exoto models, but I dont have the same opinion about the way care about your customers.

Regards,
José Rodrigo Octavio
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message -----
From: Jack
To: JRO
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 7:30 PM
Subject: RE: RE: Exoto.com Feedback: General Inquiries


Dear Sir,

Thank you for your email.

All Exoto Models are QC tested and checked on several steps before the model is packed in its box. Stating that it came just like that from us is non since and you know it. The charges are the charges and this is what it will cost us to send you the parts. For your information, there are a lot of stolen models and defective models of exoto and others which are sold on the internet, and one of them seams to me that is your model.

If you have purchased the model directly from our site, we would not have been having this conversation, because first, all models are legitimate, second if there was a problem it would have been solved.

So, I recommend to go back to your supplier, and let him exchange the model for you, since you want to nickel and dime and try to pay less for a model.

I guess you get what you pay for in this life.

Thank you,

Jack Pierre Keusseyan
Executive Vice President
Exoto Inc.
5440 Atlantis Court
Moorpark, CA 93021-7101
United States of America

Tel: ****************
Fax: ****************
email: ***************
www.exoto.com
:ranting  :ranting  :ranting  :ranting  :ranting  :ranting
Luciano

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#2 OFFLINE   Phwoarrr

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 08:29 PM

That is unbelievable!

The shipping cost he quoted are ridiculous and to think that the vice president of Exoto would respond in such a manner, I am deeply suprised. :confused
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#3 OFFLINE   cobalt1959

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 08:34 PM

Sounds to me like Exoto is saying they simply don't make mistakes. . . :ranting  :blowup
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#4 OFFLINE   hafamaca

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 08:37 PM

Wow, that last email was pretty shocking

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 08:42 PM

Contact the Better Business Bureau.  This is ridiculous!  :ranting

#6 OFFLINE   mosteller

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 10:08 PM

I'm sorry but I disagree with these responses. Sure, the replacement part costs and shipping are outrages but:
1. He bought it from a dealer, not from the manufacturer
2. He knew he was buying a defective prodect and therefore
paid substantially less than the fair market price for the model

If you bought a bad pair of shoes from a shoe store knowing they were defective, would you blame:
1. the shoe store
2. the shoe manufacturer, or
3. yourself for taking the economic riskof assuming you could fix the problem for less than it would cost you to buy proper shoes?

Stop whining and complaining! Grow up and take responsability for your own decisions!
Bob
Age and treachery will always overcome youth and ambition.

#7 OFFLINE   Denali

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 10:14 PM

Here we go..............

:shipwrecked
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#8 Guest_J Racer_*

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 10:19 PM

(I now feel really stupid! & I hate the tast of my foot!)



Anyway :help  , is exoto stating that you can't trust getting a model from any dealers unless it' through them selves?????  :confused Are not these the people(the small time dealers) the 1's that helped exoto gain the big bucks by selling the models for them? knife in the back much! :badidea

Edited by J Racer, 20 April 2005 - 10:25 PM.


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Posted 20 April 2005 - 10:21 PM

mosteller, on Apr 20 2005, 10:08 PM, said:

I'm sorry but I disagree with these responses. Sure, the replacement part costs and shipping are outrages but:
1. He bought it from a dealer, not from the manufacturer
2. He knew he was buying a defective prodect and therefore
paid substantially less than the fair market price for the model

If you bought a bad pair of shoes from a shoe store knowing they were defective, would you blame:
1. the shoe store
2. the shoe manufacturer, or
3. yourself for taking the economic riskof assuming you could fix the problem for less than it would cost you to buy proper shoes?

Stop whining and complaining! Grow up and take responsability for your own decisions!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I think you're missing the point of this thread.  

The discussion here isn't really about the spares or the model itself, but rather the way the Exec VP handled the case.

If you can't help the gentleman - fine.  But atleast be a little understanding and courteous about it.  Afterall, this is a person that purchased a product made by you, used or new.  Being an Exec VP, you would think PR would be one of his strong points.  Think about it.  This is a collector that likes your product.  There's a strong possibility that he will purchase more Exoto products in the future.  Unfortunately, this reply will almost guarantee that he won't purchase from Exoto anytime soon.

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 10:49 PM

Getter 3, on Apr 20 2005, 10:21 PM, said:

mosteller, on Apr 20 2005, 10:08 PM, said:

I'm sorry but I disagree with these responses. Sure, the replacement part costs and shipping are outrages but:
1. He bought it from a dealer, not from the manufacturer
2. He knew he was buying a defective prodect and therefore
paid substantially less than the fair market price for the model

If you bought a bad pair of shoes from a shoe store knowing they were defective, would you blame:
1. the shoe store
2. the shoe manufacturer, or
3. yourself for taking the economic riskof assuming you could fix the problem for less than it would cost you to buy proper shoes?

Stop whining and complaining! Grow up and take responsability for your own decisions!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I think you're missing the point of this thread.  

The discussion here isn't really about the spares or the model itself, but rather the way the Exec VP handled the case.

If you can't help the gentleman - fine.  But atleast be a little understanding and courteous about it.  Afterall, this is a person that purchased a product made by you, used or new.  Being an Exec VP, you would think PR would be one of his strong points.  Think about it.  This is a collector that likes your product.  There's a strong possibility that he will purchase more Exoto products in the future.  Unfortunately, this reply will almost guarantee that he won't purchase from Exoto anytime soon.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


:iagree

I mean I can understand Exoto's point here(I'm sure they get all kinds of requests for broken pieces all the time), but the way the VP responded is stupifying to say the least. Not a very good representation of a company that is known for some of the most top notch models out there.

I do agree that if you're going to buy a model that you know is defective, with the intent of trying to get replacement parts then fine, do so knowing you may not. If that's an acceptable risk, I say go for it.

I'm astounded at the reply though, there was no need for that kind of arrogance to come out f the VP's mouth and why would you not want to stand behind your product? All you'd need to say is that were only so many made and there may be the possibility of getting parts, there may not.

The more I hear about this kind of stuff from Exoto the more I get irritated. I'm fortunate to have had all my requests filled.

2 possible solutions:

1) forward those emails to the President of Exoto and see what happens. Explain that this is not the type of treatment you'd expect fom anyone form the company, much less the VP. See what happens

http://www02.exoto.c...ofile/index.asp
(note the family resemblence?)

2) ask the dealer if he'll look after it. Prolly not as he sold it "as is". Buyer beware.

3) contact me through a PM as I have a few ideas I really don't want to post here. :wink

#11 OFFLINE   Phwoarrr

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 10:51 PM

Getter 3, on Apr 20 2005, 09:21 PM, said:

I think you're missing the point of this thread. 

The discussion here isn't really about the spares or the model itself, but rather the way the Exec VP handled the case.

If you can't help the gentleman - fine.  But atleast be a little understanding and courteous about it.  Afterall, this is a person that purchased a product made by you, used or new.  Being an Exec VP, you would think PR would be one of his strong points.  Think about it.  This is a collector that likes your product.  There's a strong possibility that he will purchase more Exoto products in the future.  Unfortunately, this reply will almost guarantee that he won't purchase from Exoto anytime soon.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


:iagree  That's absolutely what I thought Souky.

The fact that the VP degraded the person who wrote the email, let alone the customer in the manner he did in his email is absolutely not acceptable. If he continues to handle PR the way he does, not only will he lose existing/potential customers, but he will tarnish the company's image. As a VP he's supposed to represent his company to the best of his ability.....which he does not.

What makes me boil the most is this statement: "I guess you get what you pay for in this life." :ranting
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#12 Guest_corvettekingofcanada_*

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 10:58 PM

:mine i wouldn't buy an exoto after hearing that. i have none and probably won't buy one after hearing that. :mine

#13 OFFLINE   StygianMax

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 10:59 PM

mosteller, on Apr 21 2005, 12:08 AM, said:

I'm sorry but I disagree with these responses. Sure, the replacement part costs and shipping are outrages but:
1. He bought it from a dealer, not from the manufacturer
2. He knew he was buying a defective prodect and therefore
paid substantially less than the fair market price for the model

If you bought a bad pair of shoes from a shoe store knowing they were defective, would you blame:
1. the shoe store
2. the shoe manufacturer, or
3. yourself for taking the economic riskof assuming you could fix the problem for less than it would cost you to buy proper shoes?

Stop whining and complaining! Grow up and take responsability for your own decisions!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think the focal issue here is not JRO nor LUW.  LUW is merely commenting on the lack of customer relations (NOT to be confused with customer service in this specific case).  You are correct in that JRO purchased the car with full knowledge that it was defective and therefore paid a discounted price.  I will speculate that he uderstood the risk he might be facing in trying to get some replacement parts for the car to make it complete.  I do believe we are all on that same wavelength here.  

The issue of contention is the flappant manner in which the Exec VP replies to JRO.   Most companies whose revenues depend on satisifed customers will bend over backwards (within reason) to accommodate their customers.  Have you heard of the saying how the customer is always right, even if they're not?  Because a consumer is not really a customer until they are made to be a repeat buyer of that company's products or services.  

Pardon my confusions, but when you wrote "Grow up and take responsibility for your own decisions", who precisely were you addressing with that order??  :confused  :feedback  Because it looked like you directed that to LUW.  I appreciate you clarification of that.
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#14 Guest_BURN_*

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Posted 21 April 2005 - 01:43 AM

:ranting  :ranting  :ranting  :ranting  :ranting  :ranting  :ranting

I think you remeber that the same problem that I had with my EXOTO Porsche 917/30 and its missing suspension.

The even trew a couple of lies in between!!!

For example, they told me that the Porsche 917/30 was now out of production and no spares were availible.... guess what? next day I receive an e-news from EXOTO stating that they will now produce an exclusive Porsche 917/30.... with the human figure inside!! No spares eh??

Secondly, they told me that they do not send to malta..... now I came to the knowledge that my brother had asked them if they would ship and entire car here! And guess their response.... of course, but shipping cost were very high.

They also stated that if they would have a part, shipping cost would be the same as a model....!?!?!?! What?? $80 for a small envelope containing a small suspension?? Are you nuts?

I am really utterly disappointed with them. What is it with their customer service?? They state 'customer satisfaction is very important' or something of that sort... and they then answer you that way...

I have made it very clear before, I will not buy any more EXOTO in my whole life, maybe if I find it cheap locally. I am pretty satisfied with what middle range manufacturers have to offer.

Exoto... go @#$@#%@$# yourself!  :ranting

Sorry if I have gone a bit over, but I am really angry, unbelieveable!

#15 Guest_stevie_*

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Posted 21 April 2005 - 02:20 AM

boedan430, on Apr 21 2005, 02:37 AM, said:

Wow, that last email was pretty shocking

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

:iagree  :iagree

#16 OFFLINE   redleaf

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Posted 21 April 2005 - 02:28 AM

Man, you can tell that Exec VP got his job thanks to his name, not his education.
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#17 OFFLINE   BVR

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Posted 21 April 2005 - 04:11 AM

Even though I think JRO could have expected that Exoto wouldn't be too happy to send the parts when he said that he got the model knowing about the defects and for a lower price, I do think Exoto completely misses the spot by reacting like they did in that last mail.

"BURN" said:

I have made it very clear before, I will not buy any more EXOTO in my whole life, maybe if I find it cheap locally. I am pretty satisfied with what middle range manufacturers have to offer.

I feel your pain man... It's just unbelievable how they treat their customers... And that after it seemed they saw the light and did it better :ranting
BTW: CMC seems to be a lot better to their customers, so you don't have to keep to mid-range manufacturers  :giggle

Edited by BVR, 21 April 2005 - 04:13 AM.


#18 OFFLINE   Madhun

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Posted 21 April 2005 - 04:15 AM

in my humble opinion when you said the missing parts are perfect examples of no q control or something,the guy at Exoto took offense.After all he is saying that when those cars leave his factory,they are guaranteed.They cant however foresee what a model will go thru after that.You also asked for free replacement parts later in your letter,which i think was a little inapropriate.
They do need someone at Exoto with less of a fuse though,
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Posted 21 April 2005 - 04:27 AM

BVR, on Apr 21 2005, 11:11 AM, said:

Even though I think JRO could have expected that Exoto wouldn't be too happy to send the parts when he said that he got the model knowing about the defects and for a lower price, I do think Exoto completely misses the spot by reacting like they did in that last mail.

"BURN" said:

I have made it very clear before, I will not buy any more EXOTO in my whole life, maybe if I find it cheap locally. I am pretty satisfied with what middle range manufacturers have to offer.

I feel your pain man... It's just unbelievable how they treat their customers... And that after it seemed they saw the light and did it better :ranting
BTW: CMC seems to be a lot better to their customers, so you don't have to keep to mid-range manufacturers  :giggle

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Unfortunetaly they make no cars I am interested in.... my brother is though :giggle
I will be able to see 3 very fine examples in the near future I think.....

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Posted 21 April 2005 - 04:29 AM

Don't lose your patience... Exoto really sucks regarding customer service. I learned this from my first year of model collecting...

#21 OFFLINE   JSB 33

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Posted 21 April 2005 - 05:06 AM

Just think, the time it took Mr K. to write that could have been spent writing a more "polite" responce that simply stated that the part was unavailable. Ill bet that would have satisfied JRO.
Or, they could have simply sent JRO the 25 cent part and the couple dollar mailing fee and right now they would be getting praise instead of anger directed to them.

What some people have to remember is the fact that NOBODY needs a diecast. They are very expensive luxuries that people treat themselves with. A little bit of courtesy and kindness from Exoto would have been some very cheap PR.

Do they have to service customers that buy from a dealer and not the manufacturer, no.
Is it good business to do so? I think yes.
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#22 Guest_BURN_*

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Posted 21 April 2005 - 05:32 AM

I am a bit calmer now... :giggle

It is like they are shooting themselves in the leg... I agree with Max, all this could have been achieved without any problem. They, in the end, would have gained praise and have a very satisfied customer.... In the end they have to look good to sell their products.... it is not that they hold a monopoly on something everyone needs and will go after.

For sure they have some fine models.... but for me, a defective Exoto model is worse than a proper AUTOart. The model is ruined indefinitely. I hope that they take into consideration these aspects of marketing.

I still cannot understand why do they end up doing this and say these words. What will they loose if they help their customer? The customer will most of the times agree to pay for such an item. They even try to make an extreme profit by shipping... please come on guys! After paying such a high price for such a model you really expect to pay that much for a replacement part.

I dont know what their policy is, but it is simply plain wrong. I would just like to see if the President of Exoto is aware of such customer treatment. Or of it is just a department of Exoto which is ruining the whole image of the company

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Posted 21 April 2005 - 05:33 AM

I'm glad that Mr JP Keusseyan raised the subject of quality control.

I've got news for him that in the QC stakes Exoto play second fiddle to the likes of AUTOart and Kyosho. The panel fit on my GT40 isn't anyway near that of even my older (2000-2001) AAs. The paint chips far too easily too.

His final response in the above email did suprise me with its abruptness. You can't treat your customers like this.

:cheers

#24 OFFLINE   gundam40

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Posted 21 April 2005 - 05:54 AM

thank you, Luciano and BURN, for bringing these Exoto issues to light.

Since I'm a new collector (and poor), I don't have a single Exoto yet. I was going to treat myself to an Exoto for my bday, but seeing these problems has put me off. I think I'm better off buying 2 Kyosho/Minichamps/AUTOart's than one Exoto.

The problems I see is this: looking at the problems presented, it seems the best way to purchase an Exoto would be to buy it in a store. And before buying it, inspect it REALLY carefully.

However, most stores will not agree to open the boxes, or even if they do, would they let you unscrew the car and take a look? Even if this happens, the time that you have to examine the car is minimal, and when you find a problem with the car, you either have to email Exoto, or bring it back to the retailer. And we know how well Exoto treats us customers, right?

Even if we buy direct from Exoto online, they'll put off any broken/missing pieces as "broken during transit" in which they won't replace without a hefty fee.

Exoto, learn from AUTOart, and treat your customers right. I remember someone posting a thread here yesterday that said AUTOart sent them a bunch of decals after he emailed them about it? Now THAT'S customer service!
Gary
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#25 OFFLINE   LUW

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Posted 21 April 2005 - 08:47 AM

mosteller, on Apr 21 2005, 01:08 AM, said:

I'm sorry but I disagree with these responses. Sure, the replacement part costs and shipping are outrages but:
1. He bought it from a dealer, not from the manufacturer
2. He knew he was buying a defective prodect and therefore
paid substantially less than the fair market price for the model

If you bought a bad pair of shoes from a shoe store knowing they were defective, would you blame:
1. the shoe store
2. the shoe manufacturer, or
3. yourself for taking the economic riskof assuming you could fix the problem for less than it would cost you to buy proper shoes?

Stop whining and complaining! Grow up and take responsability for your own decisions!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know where you come from, but Exotos here are expensive. REALLY expensive. Add to that the fact that the Ford of France is really hard to find, anywhere. The car was bought to be moded; JRO thought of making some sort of headlight cover for both the headlights, out of resin. BUT, why not ask if Exoto has the part for SALE? What the h*ll is wrong with that? I would have done the same; in fact, I didn't buy it because I had a blown budget. If I could have (and JRO didn't want it) I would have and then done the same thing.

Let me give you another example of what is the problem here. CMC produces the 300SL (Le Mans and Carrera Panamericana), and it's out of production. Some of those cars were defective, and years after their realease the engine hood started to develop a problem (because of contaminants when the piece was molded, it started to crack). A lot of collectors were looking at a prized piece in their collections getting ruined. So, applying your standards, they "whined and complained" and talked to CMC. What did CMC do? Send them the part (via a chosen dealer). For free. No questions asked.

That's how you do business in my eyes. A brand that stands behind their name. Somebody asks for a part, say if you have it or not (not answer with a "we may have it" - if Mr. VP answers e-mails from customers he should also be aware of his company's stock) and charge a honest value for it. What Mr. VP is porposing is nothing but an attempt to rip-off a collector. And while I'm at it, he also should measure his words and terms if he's representing his company. That last e-mail was offensive.

I really don't know nothing about you, but if you think asking a manufacturer for help is "whining and complaining" you must be the best consumer out there. Specially to  companies like Exoto.

PS: Just one last thing: Exoto has some fine products (I have a few and love all of them), but their customer service is worth trash in my opinion.
Luciano




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