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Need recommendation: What brand of paint to use for thinner, primer to use for beginner airbrush?


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#1 OFFLINE   blieu118

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Posted 10 January 2021 - 10:14 PM

Hello & Happy New Years!

I am planning to finally purchase my first airbrush so I can begin practicing and when ready, then work on my Pocher Aventador roadster kit. These two brands - Tamiya and Mr. Color/Hobby came to mind. Which do you recommend and besides these two brands, I would like to know what other cheaper acrylic paint to use besides the two I mentioned? I have looked on amazon and ebay and all cost over $10 for a little 10ml bottle and as you know everything adds up. Thanks in advance.

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#2 OFFLINE   StratosWRC

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Posted 11 January 2021 - 06:34 AM

you will need a lot of those vials for a pocher. I get my paint from Splash Paints and they sell them in 30 mL vials. For a 1/18 model I use pretty much 2 vials. So you would need 6 of the 10 mL jars for one 1/18 and I think the Pocher is 1/8? I'm guessing you need double so 12 jars lol (half paint, half thinner). I think they're about $5-6 cad a piece, so $64? May as well get 3 vials (90 mL in total) from Splash Paints and see if you can stretch that out. The problem with opening models is that each part needs to be painted separately so there is more waste. Sealed body models often have all the parts that need to be painted in one place so you can get away with a small amount. Then don't forget about primer, base colour (if it's a 2 step - although you could use a black primer if that's what the recipe calls for) and clear coat. Each one needs 3 coats (1 light, 2 wet), so assuming everything goes perfectly (it probably won't) and you don't need to repaint anything (probably will), you need like at least 30 of the small vials, so that's $150 CAD in total lol! Honestly better off getting some proper automotive paint from Splash Paints. But ONLY if you're not painting in the house and ONLY if you have a respirator and a fume hood, especially if you're using 2K clear.

EDIT: find a local hobby store, those little jars are $4-5 CAD there

https://www.sunwardhobbies.ca/ - this is my local shop that I use and they ship

If you want to save money on primer, I've been using Vallejo primer - it's a larger can than Tamiya - more than twice the size, but price is the same.

Edited by StratosWRC, 11 January 2021 - 07:35 AM.

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#3 ONLINE   slartibartfast229

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Posted 11 January 2021 - 07:30 AM

Having been a kit builder for decades, I can say that opinion is divided on the choice of paint.
Of the two choices I only use Tamiya aerosols, since Mr. Color is not easily available in Ireland.
Wherever possible I use the Tamiya as a top coat over automotive sprays, the quality of finish is almost always the best.
I also regularly use Tamiya TS13 gloss clear as a finish barrier.
It can be rather slow to cure before polishing (if necessary) which is an issue of temperature and humidity.
All painting is done outside when conditions allow.

#4 OFFLINE   Guiddy

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Posted 11 January 2021 - 08:36 AM

HI all,

First off I'll post the project I've just finished in 1/12 scale, using an IWATA NEO airbrush and a mix of Tamiya Lacquer paints and Alclad 2. Air supplied by a $5 Revell Air compressor I bought 20 years ago!
The Tamiya Lcaquers are excellent as they will stick to the bare plastic with no primer needed. The Alclad will then stick to the lacquer with very little shrinkage. The red fairings you see here are finished in Tamiya LP-21 Italian Red with a 1k clear over the top, which was then lightly cut back and polished. Very easy paint to use.

I also built the Pocher Aventador and that was Alclad sprayed over automotive paints from rattle cans as it was a bigger area. Also had great results.

Practice a little with a cheap kit before you commit on the Aventador!

Posted Image

Edited by Guiddy, 11 January 2021 - 08:37 AM.


#5 OFFLINE   blieu118

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Posted 11 January 2021 - 09:14 AM

Thanks for all the replies.

@Guiddy:

That Dugatti looks like an excellent built! Looks best because it looks clean out of all the color combo that Pocher has to offer so far!
I forgot to ask about painting the interior. Is it airbrush or can is good enough? I am thinking to use acrylic because it is less toxic unlike other paint choices right(correct me if I am wrong)? But it is good to know that lacquer sticks on a plastic surface better.

And has anyone used those $100 Master spray booth?

Edited by blieu118, 11 January 2021 - 09:25 AM.


#6 OFFLINE   StratosWRC

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Posted 11 January 2021 - 09:53 AM

View Postblieu118, on 11 January 2021 - 09:14 AM, said:

And has anyone used those $100 Master spray booth?

The one I have is by Vigiart but they all look the same. I feel like for 1/18 models you need two of them side by side. It does feel a bit cramped

Don't forget that you also need to buy a respirator and I think that comes with cartridges. It's a very expensive investment. With the airbrush, booth, respirator, compressor, you're looking at about $800 CAD, and that's not counting paint or the model.

Edited by StratosWRC, 11 January 2021 - 10:27 AM.

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#7 OFFLINE   JRP

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Posted 11 January 2021 - 10:09 AM

View Postblieu118, on 11 January 2021 - 09:14 AM, said:

And has anyone used those $100 Master spray booth?

Will your Pocher fit in that? IF you're not painting the car exterior it should be fine. Else build your own but do get the extractor/filter.
Also I think it would be wise to investigate if the airbrush can cover the exterior properly if painting 1 colour, you might need to get something that resembles an automotive spraygun.
The more info you can gather the less disappointment may occur. Don't skimp on material cost.
Good luck, looking forward to the results.

Edited by JRP, 12 January 2021 - 02:15 AM.

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#8 OFFLINE   blieu118

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Posted 11 January 2021 - 01:45 PM

Gentlemen thanks for all the tips!

Haha dont know why I am so anxious about this project. I am guessing because I never done any model car kit painting before so everything feels like it is VERY overwhelming! Preping the parts(I know there are a lot of them) and I just finished checking all the parts is already overwhelming enough... :O

Edited by blieu118, 11 January 2021 - 01:45 PM.


#9 OFFLINE   BaseGTR

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Posted 12 January 2021 - 01:19 AM

Personally I wouldn't use acrylic paint on such a large project, I feel the paint isn't strong enough, it's easily marked and ruined.

Stick with lacquer based paints. The new tamiya lacquer range is fantastic. Although for the amount of paint you'll need, might be worth seeing if you've got any local paint stores that can mix you up the colour you need, will be far more cost effective than buying loads of 10ml jars.

1k/2k lacquer is a different debate entirely. From the people I've seen use 2k, the results are amazing. 2k primer adheres better, 2k clear goes on very smooth and gives you a stunning, strong finish. The downsides are the health risks associated with the 2k hardeners. Ensure you read up on it if you do intend to use it and only do so if you've got the correct equipment to keep yourself safe.

1k requires a bit more care and effort, but can still result in an excellent finish. Tamiya lacquer paint is 1k for example.

As you've said you'd rather avoid a more toxic paint, I'd say go with 1k lacquer based paints. Ensure you have a paint mask with filters designed for painting and good ventilation.

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#10 OFFLINE   blieu118

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Posted 12 January 2021 - 11:01 PM

View PostBaseGTR, on 12 January 2021 - 01:19 AM, said:

Personally I wouldn't use acrylic paint on such a large project, I feel the paint isn't strong enough, it's easily marked and ruined.

Stick with lacquer based paints. The new tamiya lacquer range is fantastic. Although for the amount of paint you'll need, might be worth seeing if you've got any local paint stores that can mix you up the colour you need, will be far more cost effective than buying loads of 10ml jars.

1k/2k lacquer is a different debate entirely. From the people I've seen use 2k, the results are amazing. 2k primer adheres better, 2k clear goes on very smooth and gives you a stunning, strong finish. The downsides are the health risks associated with the 2k hardeners. Ensure you read up on it if you do intend to use it and only do so if you've got the correct equipment to keep yourself safe.

1k requires a bit more care and effort, but can still result in an excellent finish. Tamiya lacquer paint is 1k for example.

As you've said you'd rather avoid a more toxic paint, I'd say go with 1k lacquer based paints. Ensure you have a paint mask with filters designed for painting and good ventilation.

Hi,
Thanks for the tips. Thats a lot to learn. When you say 1k and 2k you mean the type of paint to be used on the airbrush? Sorry I am new to painting so I get a lot to learn from. For this project, I will only paint the interior like dashboard, and engine parts like the engine block, exhausts, airbox. You said acrylic was not strong you meant the paint will easily fade or go bad as it ages?

Edited by blieu118, 12 January 2021 - 11:04 PM.


#11 OFFLINE   BaseGTR

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Posted 13 January 2021 - 02:00 AM

View Postblieu118, on 12 January 2021 - 11:01 PM, said:

Hi,
Thanks for the tips. Thats a lot to learn. When you say 1k and 2k you mean the type of paint to be used on the airbrush? Sorry I am new to painting so I get a lot to learn from. For this project, I will only paint the interior like dashboard, and engine parts like the engine block, exhausts, airbox. You said acrylic was not strong you meant the paint will easily fade or go bad as it ages?

Cheers, no problem. Yeah so 1k and 2k are different types of lacquer based paints, 2k being more durable. I thought you intended to respray the entire car including exterior, where I would definitely recommend 2k or at least 1k on such a large car. Acrylic isn't as strong in terms of it's easier to peel off, easier to chip and damage etc.

As you're only doing the interior, you could use acrylics and be fine as they're not going to be parts that are handled often so no real risk of damaging anything.

What I advise you do is have a look at the tamiya acrylic range and lacquer range, see which one has the colours you need and go from there. Also see what's available depending on your location.

For primer stick with a lacquer based one. In my experience acrylic based primers are awful. Tamiya grey primer spray can is good, mr surfacer 1000 or 1500 is good too. The mr surfacer stuff is best thinned with mr color levelling thinner.

Basecoats, usually acrylics and lacquers shouldn't be mixed but with tamiya, you can thin both the acrylics and lacquers with their tamiya lacquer thinner retarder (retarder is a type that slows drying time so the paint can level out smoother). For thinking ratios, just Google for whatever paint you have and follow the recommended amounts.

Ensure you have an airbrush cleaner suitable for the type of paint you'll use. Also keep in mind there's a lot of miscellaneous things you'll need; gloves, pipettes, mixing cups, cleaning brushes, spare bottle to dump cleaning fluid etc.

There's a lot to learn about painting tbh, I suggest you keep googling and learning about it.

I highly recommend you watch this guys videos, have a look through his tutorials, they were a big help to me when I got into airbrushing - https://youtube.com/...caleModelReview

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#12 OFFLINE   blieu118

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Posted 13 January 2021 - 05:58 AM

View PostBaseGTR, on 13 January 2021 - 02:00 AM, said:

View Postblieu118, on 12 January 2021 - 11:01 PM, said:

Hi,
Thanks for the tips. Thats a lot to learn. When you say 1k and 2k you mean the type of paint to be used on the airbrush? Sorry I am new to painting so I get a lot to learn from. For this project, I will only paint the interior like dashboard, and engine parts like the engine block, exhausts, airbox. You said acrylic was not strong you meant the paint will easily fade or go bad as it ages?

Cheers, no problem. Yeah so 1k and 2k are different types of lacquer based paints, 2k being more durable. I thought you intended to respray the entire car including exterior, where I would definitely recommend 2k or at least 1k on such a large car. Acrylic isn't as strong in terms of it's easier to peel off, easier to chip and damage etc.

As you're only doing the interior, you could use acrylics and be fine as they're not going to be parts that are handled often so no real risk of damaging anything.

What I advise you do is have a look at the tamiya acrylic range and lacquer range, see which one has the colours you need and go from there. Also see what's available depending on your location.

For primer stick with a lacquer based one. In my experience acrylic based primers are awful. Tamiya grey primer spray can is good, mr surfacer 1000 or 1500 is good too. The mr surfacer stuff is best thinned with mr color levelling thinner.

Basecoats, usually acrylics and lacquers shouldn't be mixed but with tamiya, you can thin both the acrylics and lacquers with their tamiya lacquer thinner retarder (retarder is a type that slows drying time so the paint can level out smoother). For thinking ratios, just Google for whatever paint you have and follow the recommended amounts.

Ensure you have an airbrush cleaner suitable for the type of paint you'll use. Also keep in mind there's a lot of miscellaneous things you'll need; gloves, pipettes, mixing cups, cleaning brushes, spare bottle to dump cleaning fluid etc.

There's a lot to learn about painting tbh, I suggest you keep googling and learning about it.

I highly recommend you watch this guys videos, have a look through his tutorials, they were a big help to me when I got into airbrushing - https://youtube.com/...caleModelReview

Thanks vm appreciate it! You are the BEST! Thats a lot of useful tips to read on!

Great to know that I can use lacquer primer and acrylic paint for the top coat. I thought acrylic primer has to go with acrylic as top coat or vice versa.

Edited by blieu118, 13 January 2021 - 06:07 AM.


#13 OFFLINE   BaseGTR

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Posted 13 January 2021 - 11:47 AM

View Postblieu118, on 13 January 2021 - 05:58 AM, said:

Thanks vm appreciate it! You are the BEST! Thats a lot of useful tips to read on!

Great to know that I can use lacquer primer and acrylic paint for the top coat. I thought acrylic primer has to go with acrylic as top coat or vice versa.

As a general rule, because acrylic is not as 'hot' as lacquer, you can use it over lacquer and be fine. Whereas the other way round, lacquer over acrylic I've heard can be problematic as the lacquer has more 'bite' so can sometimes ruin the underlying acrylic. With some paints, so long as the acrylic is thoroughly dry and you take it easy with light coats of lacquer on top, it could be completely fine, just about experimenting.

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#14 OFFLINE   blieu118

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Posted 14 January 2021 - 05:43 PM

View PostBaseGTR, on 13 January 2021 - 11:47 AM, said:

View Postblieu118, on 13 January 2021 - 05:58 AM, said:

Thanks vm appreciate it! You are the BEST! Thats a lot of useful tips to read on!

Great to know that I can use lacquer primer and acrylic paint for the top coat. I thought acrylic primer has to go with acrylic as top coat or vice versa.

As a general rule, because acrylic is not as 'hot' as lacquer, you can use it over lacquer and be fine. Whereas the other way round, lacquer over acrylic I've heard can be problematic as the lacquer has more 'bite' so can sometimes ruin the underlying acrylic. With some paints, so long as the acrylic is thoroughly dry and you take it easy with light coats of lacquer on top, it could be completely fine, just about experimenting.
Thanks!
So if I want to buy two different Tamiya primers in acrylic and lacquer, I don’t need to buy a separate acrylic thinner because I could use the lacquer thinner to thin both as you said, correct?

Edited by blieu118, 14 January 2021 - 05:51 PM.


#15 OFFLINE   BaseGTR

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Posted 14 January 2021 - 07:42 PM

View Postblieu118, on 14 January 2021 - 05:43 PM, said:

Thanks!
So if I want to buy two different Tamiya primers in acrylic and lacquer, I don’t need to buy a separate acrylic thinner because I could use the lacquer thinner to thin both as you said, correct?

That's correct, also the lacquer thinner is said to work better than the acrylic one for airbrushing.

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#16 OFFLINE   blieu118

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Posted 16 January 2021 - 11:44 AM

View PostBaseGTR, on 14 January 2021 - 07:42 PM, said:

View Postblieu118, on 14 January 2021 - 05:43 PM, said:

Thanks!
So if I want to buy two different Tamiya primers in acrylic and lacquer, I don’t need to buy a separate acrylic thinner because I could use the lacquer thinner to thin both as you said, correct?

That's correct, also the lacquer thinner is said to work better than the acrylic one for airbrushing.

I see both types of Tamiya lacquer thinners. One says “retarder type”. Which one is better?

Edited by blieu118, 16 January 2021 - 11:45 AM.


#17 OFFLINE   BaseGTR

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Posted 16 January 2021 - 04:54 PM

View Postblieu118, on 16 January 2021 - 11:44 AM, said:

I see both types of Tamiya lacquer thinners. One says “retarder type”. Which one is better?

The retarder type is generally better as it has slower drying times so allows the paint to level smoother.

Edited by BaseGTR, 16 January 2021 - 04:54 PM.

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#18 OFFLINE   blieu118

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Posted 16 January 2021 - 09:21 PM

View PostBaseGTR, on 16 January 2021 - 04:54 PM, said:

View Postblieu118, on 16 January 2021 - 11:44 AM, said:

I see both types of Tamiya lacquer thinners. One says “retarder type”. Which one is better?

The retarder type is generally better as it has slower drying times so allows the paint to level smoother.
Thanks!

#19 OFFLINE   blieu118

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Posted 17 January 2021 - 03:35 PM

I just watched a video of someone doing airbrush with alclad aluminum paints. I am thinking of using alclad aluminum on the engine parts and tamiya paint for the interior dashboard. Do I have to buy different primer from tamiya and alclad(for example, alclad primer for enginee parts and Tamiya priner for the interior dashboard, etc. I mainly only paint all the black plastic of the interior like the dash with semi-gloss black. Are they cross compatible where I can buy one brand of primer for either one as long as they are lacquer?

Edited by blieu118, 17 January 2021 - 03:37 PM.


#20 OFFLINE   StratosWRC

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Posted 17 January 2021 - 03:48 PM

I used alclad with black Tamiya paint underneath. It'll pop more and look smoother with gloss black underneath

Edited by StratosWRC, 17 January 2021 - 05:53 PM.

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#21 OFFLINE   BaseGTR

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Posted 17 January 2021 - 05:23 PM

Alclad is Lacquer based same as the Tamiya primer and LP range so you shouldn't have any compatibility issues.

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#22 OFFLINE   blieu118

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Posted 17 January 2021 - 06:30 PM

View PostStratosWRC, on 17 January 2021 - 03:48 PM, said:

I used alclad with black Tamiya paint underneath. It'll pop more and look smoother with gloss black underneath

I saw exactly what the guy did. And the finish looks brilliant! Cant wait to try it out.

#23 OFFLINE   blieu118

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Posted 17 January 2021 - 08:55 PM

Do I need both alclad primer before the alclad black base Or either one is fine for the engine parts before the color coat?

Edited by blieu118, 17 January 2021 - 10:12 PM.


#24 OFFLINE   StratosWRC

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Posted 18 January 2021 - 11:30 AM

View Postblieu118, on 17 January 2021 - 08:55 PM, said:

Do I need both alclad primer before the alclad black base Or either one is fine for the engine parts before the color coat?

What I would personally do is get black primer, like the one by Vallejo for example. That takes care of the primer and black base all in one go. I don't think the type of the primer matters, but the smoother the surface - the shinier the finish will be.
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#25 OFFLINE   blieu118

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Posted 18 January 2021 - 03:35 PM

I just bought a $60 airbrush & kit which came with everything such as a compressor, cleaning. I have read some said dont buy cheap airbrush as it may not give good result. Personally, I just don’t want to invest too much since I am a beginner in airbrushing. Do I really need to spend a good amount to get a good airbrush? Eventually, I might upgrade but for now I am only planning to paint the interior and engine components.

Edited by blieu118, 18 January 2021 - 03:39 PM.




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