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Chaparral Cars, Inc. vs Exoto, Inc.


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#1 OFFLINE   Mclarenman50

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 08:02 AM

Just wanted to give all Exoto loyalist a heads up.  I have already posted on other forums, just felt it my duty to pass it along.  Recently, January 13, Chaparral Cars, Inc. filed a "Plaintiffs Original Petition" which basically states that Exoto has not paid any Royalty interest to Chap. cars for the cars sold by Exoto.  This information is a matter of public record filed in Midland Texas County Clerks office cause #CV47225.

On Feb. 26 of this year a Judge issued a "Final Judgment" (same Cause #)in favor of Chap. Cars. Inc, for the payment of $600,000 in royalty interest, plus $1.8 million in exemplary damages.  It is my understanding that this has not been finalized on the judgment, and it is possible that Exoto may appeal.  I also understand that this does not give any indication that Exoto will stop future productions of Chaparral cars.  This is just to inform the Exoto community of what possibilities the future holds.  

If you have preordered the 2J, and Exoto has already taken your money, then you may have to do some sole searching on what to do. You might call Exoto, but not sure what kind of answer you might get from them.

In my opinion, this situation only shows that its not just how Exoto has treated customers through the years, but really shows just how Tony and Co. run their operations.(i.e. Ferrari S.P.A. vs Exoto,Inc.)  It is a shame that such beautiful cars can come from a not so honest operation.

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#2 OFFLINE   acisne

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 12:02 PM

Funny how the chickens always come home to roost!   :occasion14:

I am glad I got out of the Exoto Ponzie scheme a long time ago. The "I'd gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today" scam is over.

It also explains the barrage of emails I get from Exoto. They need cash pronto!

Jim Hall should just demand the molds and start or give them to a diecast co that cares about the hobby.

Where is it written that the more diecast $$$ equals a better diecast?

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#3 OFFLINE   Jersey_Devil

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 03:29 PM

View Postacisne, on 03 April 2010 - 12:02 PM, said:


Jim Hall should just demand the molds and start or give them to a diecast co that cares about the hobby.

Hmm...GMP Chaparrals? THAT would be interesting!
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#4 OFFLINE   JerryLH3

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 04:37 PM

Wow, that is a shame.  I'd only had positive (well, non-negative) dealings with Exoto, but I had never preordered from them and only bought during their massive sales.  So, now not only do customers have horror stories, but they won't even pay royalties to the companies that are entitled to receive them.
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#5 OFFLINE   simondc07

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 05:31 PM

This does explain a few things - the delay in future Chaparral releases and constant sales. However I would have thought that after the fiasco with Ferrari that Exoto would have learnt how to properly conduct themselves. Shame because the products themselves are so good.

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#6 Guest_mac47_*

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 05:53 PM

Would a $2.4 million judgment bankrupt Exoto?

#7 OFFLINE   Super Snail

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 06:57 PM

I think we in a lose, lose, lose, situation here. Exoto lose the licensen Jim Hall wins abit of money  and no one makes models of Chaparral cars, So in the end we lose again. I'm sure no one will get there hands on the Chaparral mould as it abit like the Queen selling off her crown jewles, it anin't going to happen. No it just a case of the collector losing out again.
No matter what you think Exoto has done this hobby some good. They have helped raise the quality and accuracy of die cast models to beyond what most people thought possible. They get singled out for more bashing than what they desirve and have done nothing that any other company have not done. I think the hobby will be just that little bit worse off with out them. Now whens the next sale start!

Edited by Super Snail, 03 April 2010 - 07:04 PM.

Steve

#8 OFFLINE   VeeDub Matt

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 08:11 PM

This is a shame for the die-cast hobby indeed. As for Exoto, they need to clean up their act. If they have taken your money for any pre-orders, than I suggest contacting the BBB (Better Business Bureau) and your credit card company/bank to retrieve the money immediately. I recently had to demand money back from Exoto for an item they no longer had in stock. After a five-month-long ordeal, and after personally turning the heat up on Tony K., my money was returned.

I strongly, but respectfully, disagree with you, Super Snail. Exoto deserves every bit of criticism for their shady practices - and the same goes for all of the other fly-by-night die-cast manufacturers. Just because they turn out a quality product doesn't mean they have contributed to this hobby. What good is a product if the manufacturer is not true to its loyal customers. If anything at all, Exoto has attempted to monopolize this hobby at our expense! They are only hurting this hobby! Not to mention us hobbyists who, like a bunch of freaking lemmings, keep thoughtlessly giving them our hard-earned money!

While they may turn out some of the greatest replicas, Exoto is greedy and dishonest. This isn't just my opinion flushing out here. Feel free to call up Exoto Inc. and ask their associates what they think of the company's ethics and practices - they won't hold back. Last time I talked to a customer service rep who we all know and love (and who I won't mention her name) at Exoto, she was eagerly anticipating a job change because she couldn't take it any more! I only hope that the new job worked out for her and that she was able to escape before Exoto goes bust. I feel really sorry for the rest of those employees as well - they deserve better.

While I don't wish harm to the good people at Exoto, perhaps it's for the best if Tony K. and his brother do get their hands caught in the cookie jar. Maybe, just maybe, if they are forced to be accountable for their actions then we will not only get an incredible replica, but a reputable company to go along with it. But for now, Exoto could care less about this hobby - so I say, "To Hell with Exoto."  :occasion14:

Edited by Biblitect, 03 April 2010 - 09:42 PM.


#9 OFFLINE   Super Snail

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 11:50 PM

Sorry but I dont understand how have Exoto monoplize the hobby? Aren't there other companies out there doing a better job of this Mattel with the Ferrari licsence? They are just making models the same as evrey other company out there. It makes no difference if the company is loyal or not they make good models, yes all they think about is making money. Sorry but that goes for every company in exsitace. If they treat their workers so badly why is it I have been speacking to the same bunch of people for years? Yes I admit some of the pracices need to be changed but I say again Exoto have done nothing that no othere model manufacturer as done and keep doing. As for people keeping to give Exoto there money they must be producing object that we as collectors want if that makes me a lemming show me the clif. We are allowed to purchase what we want from whom we want thats  capitlizume supplie a product and charge as much as you can name a manufacturer that does not do this?

I do feel sorry for the employees they could be facing losing there jobs at a time when it hard to come across another all because of greed yes but not just on Exoto's part.But that down to the lawers not us to decide. I just disagree with your side of the argument as much as you do with mine but that life we stil collectors of diecast after all.
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#10 OFFLINE   MichamelXP

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 05:18 AM

No wonder, that the models getting more expensive...
Does the price from a current Exoto model include any parts for a claim for compensation?   :occasion14:
Is this the reason, why the Ferraris in 1/18 are to buy for 500 or 600 USD???  https://www.diecastxchange.com/forum1/public/style_emoticons/default/dizzy.gif
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#11 OFFLINE   VeeDub Matt

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 05:50 AM

View PostSuper Snail, on 03 April 2010 - 11:50 PM, said:

I just disagree with your side of the argument as much as you do with mine but that life we stil collectors of diecast after all.
Yes, we are all still collectors, and I sincerely appreciate your point of view. Thanks for sharing!

I guess I just don't buy the argument that essentially says, "Because all the other companies are doing it, then it's alright for Exoto to do it too." Why should loyal hobbyists like us settle for mediocre (or less) business practices from any of the big-name companies?

I still hold strong to the fact that a business must have good ethics as well as a good product in order to succeed. Moreover, I still feel that this hobby could use responsible hobbyists who don't give their money away to irresponsible companies.  :occasion14:

Edited by Biblitect, 04 April 2010 - 05:06 PM.


#12 OFFLINE   Super Snail

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 01:30 PM

What are responsible/loyal collectors
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#13 OFFLINE   VeeDub Matt

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 04:42 PM

View PostSuper Snail, on 04 April 2010 - 01:30 PM, said:

What are responsible/loyal collectors
I would suggest that both terms are a two-sided coin that involve and effect both the hobbyists and the companies who supply die-casts. I would define these terms as such (and feel free to correct me, ANYONE, if these are erroneous or fall short in any way):

I would define a responsible hobbyist as: a collector who desires ethical business practices as well as quality products from manufacturers - without compromise. Thus, companies involved in this hobby either prosper or fail due to their relationship (or lack thereof) with the hobbyists.

I would define a loyal hobbyist as: a collector who is faithful to the hobby they pursue, whereby they desire to ensure its longevity by continual support. Thus, the companies involved in this hobby honor their contributors with ethical business practices and quality products to ensure long-term customers.

Ultimately, I would suggest that both of these definitions are key components of every collector (and are one in the same to some extent).  :occasion14:

Edited by Biblitect, 04 April 2010 - 04:45 PM.


#14 OFFLINE   Super Snail

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 12:21 AM

Biblitect, I see your pionts; and in some case’s I can agree but in the end I’m a consumer not a shareholder. I have chosen a certain model from a certain manufacturer because it suits my requirments frist of all is it of a quality and accuracy that I require at a price that I can afford. I expect that in the price of that model any loyalties that are owed have been taken in to acount. If this is not then paided, it is nothing to do with me I have paided the price asked by the manufacturer, more than this is their bussniess. After this I’m a happy man upto now I have had no problems with the company that you seam to have problems with that have not been sorted with in a few e-mails.So they have done all that is required of them . If they fail due to their practices so be it but I have forfilled my part in the equastion. Lolalty works both ways to me as long as they produce what I like at the price I like, I’m as loyal  as that. Manufacturers only have one loyalty to their share holders while they are selling models and making a profit the share holders are happy as soon as this stops the shareholders start to ask questions. They do not produce models in third world countries to help make that country better they are there because thay can make more profit so were are there ethics. I’m sorry but I think your thinking this hobby is more than it is, all it is here for is to supply people with products they want that make them happy. If they survive, does not mean that they are ethical nor does it if they fail. This is all that bothers me, is the product I’m buying worth it and I’m sorry if this is a little less than you think I should be thinking about.

Edited by Super Snail, 06 April 2010 - 12:23 AM.

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#15 OFFLINE   VeeDub Matt

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 08:24 PM

I agree with what you said for the most part, Super Snail. It would just be nice, if not ideal, to see Exoto clean up their act a little... I just think that if we're being intellectually honest here, then we would both agree that the company has some major flaws right now - and they're paying for it, sadly. Good luck with your collection. Great conversation. You really challenged my thinking.  :occasion14:

Edited by Biblitect, 14 April 2010 - 03:04 AM.


#16 OFFLINE   Diecast24/7

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 09:26 PM

Exoto's position is completely and totally indefensible. Period.

I don't have the time or interest in typing a long post and I'm sure no one has any interest in reading it. So I will just say that there are alot of assholes in this business and even a few criminals. I hope the right thing happens, I hope Chaparral gets paid by this deadbeat company, I hope everyone who was cheated by Exoto gets their stolen money back and I hope diecast businesses who are bad for this hobby are gone before the year is up.
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#17 OFFLINE   Super Snail

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Posted 14 April 2010 - 12:34 AM

Just pleased that we can agree to disagree with out throwing "baby out of the pram" kind of things. I don't delibratly try to upset people its not my way but I seam to be able to do it with out trying, Thanks
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#18 OFFLINE   leadfoot4

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Posted 01 May 2019 - 02:47 PM

This is obviously a very old topic of discussion, but something has always had me thinking. I "pre-ordered" a Chaparral 2D from Exoto, about 14-15 years ago, when they were first announced. Fortunately, I had no money involved, so I lost nothing, except for the vacant space in my Chaparral collection.

Obviously, since pictures were posted on Exoto's website, at least a few of the 2D models were manufactured. And on a die cast website that I no longer remember, someone posted that they were able to somehow purchase a "pre production" model of the Exoto 2D. They even posted a picture of it. Having said that, did Jim Hall's law suit prevent Exoto from selling ANY 2Ds at all, or just prevent their sale in America?

#19 OFFLINE   ws6_22

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 12:38 PM

if it's true, for that reason, do not get more chaparral new for sale, so we'll stay with the desire to have the 2D and 2J

#20 OFFLINE   speedy

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Posted 04 May 2019 - 01:24 PM

I don't think anyone truly knows when it comes to Exoto, I got a few models direct from them when they used to have the 50% sales and I only ordered models that they actually had in stock, I did order one of the Sauber C9's one of the Silver ones and when I noticed on the email they sent me of the models I had ordered the Sauber was not on there, I phoned them and I managed to get through to them and the women told me that the one I had wanted/ordered had sold out in the sale I asked what Saubers they had left and they had the blue Kouros one from from the Spa 24hrs I think and it was the one with the wet weather tires on so I said I will have that one instead.

I have heard so many horror stories about Exoto, I only got my Exotos direct from them and I guess I was just lucky to have had no issues with them and it is a shame for everyone because many of the models are very good and basically unique and not modeled by anyone else, the prices of them now even when on sale are mind blowing though, I always wanted one of the Rolls Royce Phantom Dropheads and just looking they are still not released.

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#21 OFFLINE   Racer2014

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Posted 06 May 2019 - 09:46 PM

I have many many Exoto models but of course it’s been at least 10 years or so since I got them. Anyone thinks they are still getting a 2D or 2J is dreaming. And Tony is on Facebook but not as Exoto, looks like he is still living the high life. I sure would like to order a Ferrari 246 but in way directly from Tony, a shame since he is a 1 hour drive from me.




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