[Phatboi101]

CMC is in this price range or higher but they are classics.

This is the exact issue though that collectors should have with the pricing ... and I would argue CMC are in this price range due to the level of details, part counts, accuracy, amount of research put into each model etc.
Compared to AR who want to be in this price range due to a nice shiny carbon fibre outer box?

They can use all the marketing words they want "Prestine" .... "Premium" .... "Deluxe" ... But if their models are the same level as just a year or two ago when they were much cheaper ... unless they've improved double fold since then?

Im going to wait and see the finished product, and the final price ... and then way it up. No doubt though these will be popular and will probably end up selling well regardless.

 

[spikyone]

I have a counterpoint. Compare these Paganis to recent CMCs - C Type, D50 - and I'd bet the part count is just as high on the AR models. I don't know why collectors are so happy to give CMC a free pass, both those models were a bit weak with plasticky engines and cost €500, the C Type was barely any better than AUTOart's version. What is it about the Paganis that people think is less valuable?

All I can think is that CMC's marketing department is working overtime to justify their prices. Don't get me wrong, I have a 300SLR and a Birdcage and they're both great, but the recent €500 price point and the accuracy/detail of models they've released have been completely out of step.

What AR are doing is highly detailed opening diecasts at a bargain price. Based on photos, their recent Defender has some of the best details on the market and it's a big model - if CMC had made it and charged €500 no-one would've batted an eyelid.
Their models have been insanely cheap compared to the competition up to now. I can live without fancy boxes, but I can understand AR asking themselves why people are willing to pay €300+ for an inferior AUTOart and concluding that they could charge a bit more.

 

[Phatboi101]

Spiky, no-one is or should be giving CMC a free pass. I've not looked into the 2 models you've mentioned but will take your word that they are not up to CMC's usual standard. Nevertheless, this standard exists when talking about CMC as they have been the actual pinnacle of diecast models even before I started collecting many years ago. I don't think its a stretch to say this statement and many would share this sentiment, and I also don't think it has anything to do with CMC's marketing.
If the quality has been declining as of late, CMC ought to know about it.

Also, no-one is de-valuing the Pagani brand. I can say this especially for myself having paid a lot more than a CMC price tag for a few Pagani models in my collection. So this is not the case at all, certainly not for me.
Also, no-one is saying AR aren't making detailed models. They are. This is not a personal attack on them.

The underlying issue for me, and I'm really only speaking about this new "AR+" premium branding and these new Pagani models, is that I'm calling it what it is - a marketing gimmick.
This is no different to what some other brands have done recently and in the past, I can think of at least 2 good examples.
1. Models released under AUTOart's "signature" line which offer no additional details than their standard models, but incurred the signature price.
2. FrontiArt's recent moving of their Koenigsegg Regera lineup to their premium "FrontiArt" brand, the models are exactly the same but now cost more.

It's no big secret what AR are doing, adding a bit of lipstick and eye liner to charge a bit more. I think we can all see this. And yes they're probably seeing AUTOart and it's never ending price hikes and naturally want a bigger piece of the pie. Should we be supporting this though?
The Defender models you mentioned look very detailed for sure, but comparatively sell for wayyyy less money, don't come in a gaudy presentation boxes, and is not an example of AR (IMO) trying to artificially price themselves higher in the market. To me the Defender models have just as much details as what they offer on their Pagani models, without the added BS and price tag.
If collectors are happy to pay CMC prices for them, then more power to AR. I wont be, even though I would desperately want an opening Zonda diecast model to add to my collection.
But as collectors I dont think we should be supporting this type of business practice, I don't see how it benefits us in the long run

 

[scenic]

I completely agree with Phatboi101. Artificially inflating prices of models not just by manufacturers but collectors too is only going to do us harm. The prices have risen to a point where it has become nonviable for many collectors including me to continue this hobby. I've seen quite a few fellow collectors in the recent past walk away from the hobby for this very reason.

 

[spikyone]

My post was really based on specific points, rather than agreeing that new packaging is a justification for higher prices:

if their models are the same level as just a year or two ago when they were much cheaper ... unless they've improved double fold since then?

Why aren't collectors aren't looking at CMC's models and asking "why is this €500 when they were selling better models for €300 a couple of years ago?". That D50 engine is not a patch on the 300SLR or Birdcage I own, they're both a different league. CMC's models have got less good and they're asking for a higher price.

That is not to say "bring on the price hikes", I'm just questioning why AR are being compared unfavourably to CMC, who are charging €500 for models that are a similar level of detail, part count, and accuracy to AR. Justifying high prices by putting the same models in a nicer box is a bad thing, and I'm not arguing that. I am saying that those models were probably underpriced beforehand. I'm not an expert on the real Zonda F but AR's samples look absolutely stunning from photos I've seen - it could be one of the best diecasts in many years. It has a hugely detailed engine bay and rear chassis, just like a CMC; AR have even shown photos with the wheels removed. How much did AUTOart charge for their Zonda R?
So, yeah, they're charging a higher price than before, but comparing them to CMC and saying AR aren't worth that money because "they're only changing the box" doesn't stack up.

 

[richilool]

if their models are the same level as just a year or two ago when they were much cheaper ... unless they've improved double fold since then?

Why aren't collectors aren't looking at CMC's models and asking "why is this €500 when they were selling better models for €300 a couple of years ago?". That D50 engine is not a patch on the 300SLR or Birdcage I own, they're both a different league. CMC's models have got less good and they're asking for a higher price.

That is not to say "bring on the price hikes", I'm just questioning why AR are being compared unfavourably to CMC, who are charging €500 for models that are a similar level of detail, part count, and accuracy to AR. Justifying high prices by putting the same models in a nicer box is a bad thing, and I'm not arguing that. I am saying that those models were probably underpriced beforehand. I'm not an expert on the real Zonda F but AR's samples look absolutely stunning from photos I've seen - it could be one of the best diecasts in many years. It has a hugely detailed engine bay and rear chassis, just like a CMC; AR have even shown photos with the wheels removed. How much did AUTOart charge for their Zonda R?
So, yeah, they're charging a higher price than before, but comparing them to CMC and saying AR aren't worth that money because "they're only changing the box" doesn't stack up.
[/quote]

The price hike in the past 4 - 5 years for all models (I am including here even those mainstream ones that have nothing to do with detail or parts count) has more to do with the fact that the manufacturing costs have gone up, in some cases material costs, in some cases tooling costs but in most cases labor costs. Most models have also gone down in quality and detail.
I say that because almost all models in the past 10 - 15 years have been manufactured entirely in China - and now China is not so cheap anymore. I see that also in other areas - automotive components, tooling etc.
So to me it comes not as as a surprise that prices are going up for AR as well. Although in AR's case, being a relatively new manufacturer the good price/quality they had and in some cases still have has more to do with breaking into a relatively crowded market.
AUTOArt still have good models but most of them are resin now (I mean their patented resin technology), quality and detail has gone down a bit also for AUTOArt. I used to love also their 1:43 models with detail and working stuff - they do not do lower scales anymore.
Kyosho was one of best not to long ago, the first batches of 1:18 Roll-Royce models come to mind... They mostly live of old licences for models now, they do not have exclusivity for Lexus brand anymore. And they also have their RC range of products maybe that is why they do not focus so much on the diecast side.
I do not even want to speak about the ones that have always been expensive like BBR or MR.
So to conclude, I expect that AR will become more expensive in the near future, I just hope they do not also trade in quality and detail for that.

PS: An expensive looking box may appeal to some, but the majority are in or the model.

 

[StratosWRC]

That is not to say "bring on the price hikes", I'm just questioning why AR are being compared unfavourably to CMC, who are charging €500 for models that are a similar level of detail, part count, and accuracy to AR.

I would not say that the detail level is even remotely close. CMCs usually have north of 1500 parts, with the Lancia having over 1600. No matter how good AR's Defender is, it doesn't even have a third of that I would wager. As good as it was, even the AUTOart Zonda R had something like 500-600.

 

[MSZ]

That is not to say "bring on the price hikes", I'm just questioning why AR are being compared unfavourably to CMC, who are charging €500 for models that are a similar level of detail, part count, and accuracy to AR.

I would not say that the detail level is even remotely close. CMCs usually have north of 1500 parts, with the Lancia having over 1600. No matter how good AR's Defender is, it doesn't even have a third of that I would wager. As good as it was, even the AUTOart Zonda R had something like 500-600.
[/quote]

Zonda R has over 700.

 

[StratosWRC]

That is not to say "bring on the price hikes", I'm just questioning why AR are being compared unfavourably to CMC, who are charging €500 for models that are a similar level of detail, part count, and accuracy to AR.

I would not say that the detail level is even remotely close. CMCs usually have north of 1500 parts, with the Lancia having over 1600. No matter how good AR's Defender is, it doesn't even have a third of that I would wager. As good as it was, even the AUTOart Zonda R had something like 500-600.
[/quote]

Zonda R has over 700.
[/quote]

There you go, thank you. Even at the lowest end of the spectrum, the Ferrari D50 and the Lancia for example, they still have 400 parts more than the most-detailed-ever autoart.

I doubt the Defender has more than 200-250 parts, if that. Models can look misleading. The Exoto Saubers and Jaguar XJR-9 models are considered highly detailed but have half the parts count of an AUTOart Zonda R. The Defender looks good, but a CMC being twice the price is justified from a parts count perspective. I don't collect either AR or CMC models anymore so I don't really care about the outcome. Just sharing my objective 2 cents

 

[MartinBond]

Meanwhile, I'm /still/ waiting on their Orange C-X75. I thought it'd be nice to pair with my DB10, but at this rate the movie is gonna celebrate it's 10th anniversary before the Jag's release...

 

[spikyone]

Anyone know what happened to the purple Mulsanne Speed? Saw a decent deal on the W.O. Edition and was thinking of picking that up but I remember thinking the purple Mulsanne looked great when they announced it. Don't remember seeing it in any of the usual places though.

 

[Pat974]

This is an interesting discussion. I think it's hard to compare CMC and Almost Real. I love both, but CMC has more metal parts and details and their subject matters are very different. The price hike has more to do with labour and materials costs. This has been the trend in the past 10 years or so. Anyhow, I won't probably buy CMCs anymore. I can't afford to spend $500 on a model. I am more likely to buy Almost Real models.

 

[richilool]

Anyone know what happened to the purple Mulsanne Speed? Saw a decent deal on the W.O. Edition and was thinking of picking that up but I remember thinking the purple Mulsanne looked great when they announced it. Don't remember seeing it in any of the usual places though.

Yeah, what happened to all the Mulsanne versions. I am still waiting to get my hands on the 1:18 Mulsanne Speed in two tone color blue/silver and in Beluga grey color. The only one launched is the one in Julep/Yellow and to be honest that is the one color that does not impress me that much.

 

[Mikestroh]

It would be awesome if they made the Rolls Royce Cullinan.

 

[scenic]

Soon to be launched LR Defender in white

 

[911percent]

G65 comming soon! Still cant understand why they canceled the S63 AMG...

 

[SS-20]

1:18 Land Rover Defender 110 "Camel Trophy" Support Unit Borneo 1985

 

[kevinb120]

ARs new release news with the parade of LR always reminds me of schucco and their VW vans

 

[Craig]

LAND ROVER - RANGE ROVER VELAR 1969 ALM810112

 

[AN02EWC]

Getting a bit tiring all these 4x4...