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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Hi the problem is not a sales thing its a future branding concern for manufacturers

Forums such as this unintentionaly but still the same downing models and manufacturers whether its a quality issue or even worse a pricing one, which are associated with the good names manufacturers have built up. Its bad enough members advertising that you can buy Minichamps from the UK for trade price even as an end buyer, but that`s a different topic.

I was after his profesional and qualified opinion on why he said the quality from the first CMCs were not quite the same. and what this has done to your decision to buy this particular model for your brother.

Ask him why he realy wants it, if its because if its the Pan American topic there are cheaper manufacturers around who also make this model. If its the CMC model buy it for him and watch his face light up in delight. but please come back and tell us why. I am not the only one who is interested in end reciever reactions.

Thanks
 

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<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right]
This isn't a market research site.
DX is for colletors to share their passion for diecast with others.
Your commercial concerns about how collectors rate various products do not influence or interest us.
Please stop polluting our forum with your commercial related concerns.
 
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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
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Obviously CMC have a good line up, but it is good value for money? It is obvious that a CMC is better than a budget company. Cannot expect anything different from that. But is the price difference worth it? You think price is not important? I will be able to get 4 budget diecasts or 1 top end model. Which to get?

Then there is a balance, every collector has his, "value for money". A kind of proportion made mentally. Will you be happier with 4 good but not great models? or one extra great model. So, you see that people thinking varies, some may opt for 4 as they will be happier with them as a whole, others prefer one good diecast.

A kind of equation

4 budget diecast satisfaction >/< 1 top end model

if the top end model is not up to standard like the new models, but it is almost priced as the new ones, then there is a problem. Most people will judge that 4 budget cars will be prefered and so the one top end model will obviously be unprefered.

If manufacturers or sellers think that price opinion is wrong, or better value for money is wrong, then they have a very large problem.

When you talk about qualified opinion... Someone who has a great number of diecasts of different manufacturers and who has been in this hobby for years is qualified to me. If you dont see that as a qualification, dont ask for the opinion. But I did ask them, and their opinion is very much qualified for me.

Again, this is my last reply to you on this agument. This topic was opened to talk on something else. Please refrain from continueing the argument in this topic.
 
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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Thanks for your reply

Points have been taken on board and it has helped alot esp the point qualified opinion side. Value for money well all manufacturers have experts who deal with that side They just cant understand why some people will still insist on spending lots of money on minichamps mclaren gtrs and so forth and can get the same car from IXO but I am sure some one in the forum will tell us all about collectabilty.

I was actually trying to get that particular person to admit they are not an expert through you but just a collector to which in many eyes not just mine means they have no idea about quality models you just want it because its there and if you can afford it you will buy it. Its up to the trade to stock these items we will stock anything as long as it sells within the trade and the public via various websites and ebay but when we do a show then the quality comes out.

Scale model engineering is an art

Admin, read your forums front page it says everyone is entitled to an opinion. We take your members opinions very seriously. no matter how I come across on this forum I am also entitled to mine.

thanks
 

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<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right]
And your opinion means less to me with every post.

I pity your customers if this is your attitude toward collectors.

"Just a collector"

I sure know which store in Germany to avoid at all costs.

Its a shame that we don't measure up to our high standards of expertise. :eek:k

Give me a break!

Comment all you want about models but the minute you start attacking members here and insulting them then we have an issue.

This is the end of this argument, you are boring us with your supposed superior intellect.
 

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Ok, here we go.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right]
Since I infer that "that particular person" is me, let me answer directly. Am I an expert? Of course I am. PhD in Diecast Collecting. In fact, I'm the world's top expert about what I like and what I don't. So, if I say that I think that the W196R is ages better then the Panamericana, you can be 100% sure that I really think that way.

You think the Panamericana is a wonderfull model? Good for you. Wanna buy it? Good luck, hope you find one (if by any chance you find two, let me know, because I also want to buy it - for a decent price, of course). Does that mean that the Panamericana is better or as good as CMC's latest models? h*ll NO, NOT IN A MILLION YEARS!!!! If you do think that, I can only say I admire your loyalty to the brand (or do you work there? Unhappily we don't know much about you).

If you cared to read my reviews on my CMC models (which I suspect you didn't) you will read that I only wrote praise about them, becuase they're good, very good in fact. They're definitively in the top 10 models of my collection (at 117 as of now). BUT, though I like CMC, even though I would like to have the Panamericana, it's not a great model. Ricko has the same car for a fraction of the price, and the detail level is not bad. If I ever found a CMC Panamericana for a price I could afford I would buy it without thinking twice, but that doesn't mean it's a fantastic model. If I find Ricko's 1st, I would buy it and WOULD NOT by CMC's if it showed up later.

So please, before you give your "technical opinions" (and of course you're entitled to them, and we would like to hear them), try to be less "owner of the truth". As you read, you got two members upset with your replies. We have a very nice community here, the best forum on the Web in my humble opinion. Please excuse us, but everybody here get's a little nervous when somebody is called out, so to say. Most of the members here are friends, and friends go like that.

I think I extended myself too much there, so let's move on, shall we? :cheers
 
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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
I don't have much more to say. Just that you or your opinion are not welcome anymore to me. Your attitude towards diecast and collectors is a mere profit making business. You do not see into it, you are not a collector.

I am sorry for you as you are not going to get any orders from me, and probably from any other member here. There are many diecast shops around, you are not gaining any respect here.

If we would do as you say, everybody would end up collecting the same exact things and manufacturers would end up doing the same cars. Everybody does his wishlist, everyone buys according to his theme. Obvoiusly if he gets a deal on one of them he would buy from there. Money is an issue to everybody, you should know since you are in business. Believe me, I know what it means to have a diecast shop, I have been there, and your attitude shown here today is just plain wrong. You call it art, I agree, you just see the profit making side, I disagree.

Sorry, but I hope I will never have to encounter you or someone else like you again on DX or on any other method of communication.
 
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Discussion Starter · #28 · (Edited)
Firstly Id like to say to Bernard , Jeff and Luciano , WTG Guys :nicejob :nicejob

I would also like to add this:

Forums such as this unintentionaly but still the same downing models and manufacturers whether its a quality issue or even worse a pricing one, which are associated with the good names manufacturers have built up. Its bad enough members advertising that you can buy Minichamps from the UK for trade price even as an end buyer, but that`s a different topic.
This quote was directed at me , and to be perfectly honest , I cant see what the h*ll it has to do with you what I tell fellow members regarding the prices I pay for my diecasts , trade or otherwise .
You pm me with your oh so nice attitude , asking about model shops in my area , and can I get all the Minichamps range at trade , then you come onto the forum and attack me for mentioning trade prices .
Is it supposed to be an official secret what these cars can be bought for ?
Obviously it seems that you object to members finding out because they will then see exactly how much profit you line your pockets with , thats if they didnt know already .
As a trader , I can buy at Trade price , and if I want to tell the world and his son how much I got them for , then thats my business , NOT YOURS .

You have no right to come onto this forum and make comments in the manner you have , not for any reason. Attacking members and trying to discredit them by saying they are not "experts" is disgusting and as it has been pointed out to you already , it will not be tolerated .
You certainly have a right to your opinion , but with opinions like yours , maybe theyre better kept to yourself .
I think you have shot your bolt on this forum , and if you think any member purchases will be coming your way....well lets just say , I wouldnt hold your breath .

One final word of advice.........Dont let the door hit you in the a$$ on your way out .
 
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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Hi Everyone

thanks for your replys

First Brazil I did read your appraisel as we have read every thread on this forum
Second we are concerned with people knocking mayby only one car from a brand but no smoke without fire.

I dont work for any manufacturer or wholesaler but I am invited to consult on certain issues
which brings me on to Newcastle.
Pricing issues and the divide between end user and trade.

To get any trade price on any item you are supposed to be an officialy registered with VAT no trader, and possibly having a retail store ask John Ayrey. AB gee etc I gather that by mentioning beaties in the metro centre you are an end user please correct me if I am wrong.

There is supposed to be dividing line between end user and trade I hope India is reading this as I am sure he will agree. If you are not the importer apologies to you.

Where you now go for your diecast I know who it is has a policy of after preorders have been filled at normal or a´slightly discouted price will dump his stock ASP for his money back so you were lucky to get stock at 11,33 thats if you are not trade in the UK. But who does he talk to to get new stock when the UKs wholesale has already gone. I dont know

Giving out those prices makes collectors think they have the god given right to badger me at shows for 11,33 minichamps and now you know why Amerang has a problem with diecast no trader will take them on. because there is no profit in this.

Now Malta

I am in business for a number of reasons not just to make money, its also to help companies with either languge or information problems. We do this by providing people with a product or service I couldnt care less if a collector buys from me or not the end user is a very small amount on my turnover.

I sell many lines not only diecast and that has been for a long time a pleasure I used to enjoy talking to collectors but in the long run its business money changes hands I had collectors taking advantage of me due to my contacts ref stock minichamps in particular and the price I can sell them for. I dont sell to the public for trade price.

I looked and started on this forum in this way for a specific reason it was to get people to react. not to sell or to promote a website thats already moving foward.

We were under the impression that this forum was an excellent information platform to be used in research into pricing various future models and also what to produce but it has shown its just a meeting point for collectors who realy have no idea about the people who realy do all the work for your hobby all you have to do is order pay and acecpt delivery. This industry is going through a problem phaze ebay destroying prices swap meets in the uk dumping stock two different prices across in the USA etc.

something must be done to address these problems and it is my job to find out if you all could contribute

I annoyed people on purpose for one reason it got me noticed by members who have now come foward and at least talked in a serious manner.

Now if you all wish and you dont have to, we can start again with one simple question.

Should the main frame diecast manufacturers concentrate only on promotional items for car companies, and then make models around the tooling available

if you would be kind enough I would like your opinions please.

In the mean time applogies to anyone if we have caused you any offence.

Thanks
 

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So "World", I think you might have made a big mistake: we're collectors here, not traders/sellers/dealers or whomever profit with the hobby. We only spend money on the hobby because it's, well, a hobby, and we like it. If a legit seller is oferreing a legit model for whatever price he's asking, and that price happens to be lower then another seller's price, we will buy from the 1st. That's normal and expected, since everyone here does not have a money cow in his/her back yard. Being quite honest, we're not very worried about who is profitting more or less, as long as we get what we want at the price we can pay.

Is eBay a problem for sellers? Probably is, as what we discussed on another topic, but guess what: it's not our problem. If eBay happens to have the best price, and we're willing to accept the risk of not inspecting what we're buying, it's at eBay that we will buy. DX and other online forums is not the place to gauge the market if you're interested in the economics envolved with the hobby. Quite frankly, I don't give a fig about that. I do care, though, is that I get what I payed for (and a just price, of course).

Here we talk about models, collections and prices. Yes, we discuss prices, but basically where is the best deal to find the model we want. We talk about what is the best model out there and what we want to see in whatever scale we collect. We do not discuss economics as we do not discuss politics, because it's just not why we're into this hobby.

But if you do want to talk about that, great, start a thread and I'm positive you'll get replies (maybe even I will be able to add something to the discussion). But if you permit, let me hand out just one word of advice from someone who has been collecting for 2,5 (yup, two and a half) years and been around DX for 1,5 years: be nice. No need to stir up the pot to get "reactions". Just ask politely and everyone answers. DX guys and gals are a jolly bunch. :wink
 
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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Hi Thanks for that

I am not the world believe me just a rather large report to complete for wednesday on pricing and the endusers opinions to a concerned manufacturer no its not CMC they have no problems. I thought I would try to get some quick info from real people who are passionate about collecting and can contribute real usefull answers for me esp with your various backgrounds.

Its rather late now but after the next two shows i will introduce a thread on the points I would like to cover. They will want more info in the future

My client just has no idea where or what the collector wants they just want to produce models for reference and marketing and its owned by people who are very hard to convince in certain matters.

Nice web site you have there dont worry about people stealing your photos shows respect to you thats all.

Thanks
 

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<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right]
Okay, here is my opinion to which I am entitled to express. That (as highlighted in red) is just about the most insulting thing I've ever read on this forum. I have never seen any come across that judgemental of anyone on this forum. (And I say this without any prejudice but with objectivity).

To the point now....please enlighten us all, what criteria makes someone an "expert" with diecasts and another "just a collector"? As far as I know, there are no accreditation issued to anyone who claims to be a "professional" in the field. If I may draw a analogy to the automotive repair industry, I will certainly say that just because a mechanic makes their living on repairing cars, he can be very far away from being "professional" eventhough he has all sorts of certificates on his garage wall. I say that with lots of firsthand experience.
 

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We were under the impression that this forum was an excellent information platform to be used in research into pricing various future models and also what to produce but it has shown its just a meeting point for collectors who realy have no idea about the people who realy do all the work for your hobby all you have to do is order pay and acecpt delivery.
As customers that is our only responsibility.
Who cares about the behind the scenes stuff. I have my own business to run and worry about. I could care less how you run yours.
This is my hobby

My client just has no idea where or what the collector wants they just want to produce models for reference and marketing and its owned by people who are very hard to convince in certain matters.
Again, who cares?
If your client doesn't know what his market is than he has a bigger problem than having someone as rude as you being their representitive to potential customers.

As I said before, DX is not here to do your job for you.
We will talk about anything we want and if it doesn't please you so be it.
This is exactly why I am so happy that we have never had manufacturer involvment here, they pollute every conversation by their self-serving interests.

We are quite concerned that some models are put down which in turn discourages potential buyers away from a certain brand.
My gosh, people want to produce a product and then they don't want anyone to say anything negative about it????
What sort of world do you live in?

I annoyed people on purpose for one reason it got me noticed by members who have now come foward and at least talked in a serious manner.
And please save us from your drama.
next time you want to ask a question, just ask it.
You don't have to get people upset first.
You are good enough at that without even trying.
 

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Every business has the right to earn profits. The problems begin when the people running the business begin to get greedy.

Why do companies make such a big fuss about Ebay and not of big chain stores like Walmart and Kmart. Are'nt WM and KM brick and mortar equivalents of Ebay. Are'nt these stores selling stuff at wholesale prices and closing down local mom and pop stores.
Where do business ethics go then?

Let me give you an example when I say greed ruins business oppurtunities. Hotwheels itself is the sole importer of their products here in India. They introduced that crappy Enzo at 120$. On the insistence of hobby shops, they got it down to around 70$. I am sure the hobby shop owners know the true value of what they are seeing in Hot Wheels. But they are not bothered because they think that since the customers are paying big money for AUTOart, the fools that they are, they will pay up for HWs too. I still find HWs collecting dust on store shelves. So also premium priced Aas. What do these shops do then. They resort to 20 and 30 % offs if not more. So who is the bigger fool. Would you like to see piling inventory or would you like to see fast selling stock, however reasonably small the margins are.

If you have followed the forum, you will know how popular AUTOart's decision to sell models at a predetermined fixed price is. Sad to say but this price is too high to be reasonable. Some of the prices almost lick Exoto territory. How long do you think AUTOart can sustain this. What do they take collectors to be? Cash cows who win the lottery every two days?

The companies have consultants to do research. Who does the collector go to? Forums such as DX ofcourse. The camaraderie that is formed here ensures that every collector, no matter which corner he is from, gets the best value for his hard earned money. So whats wrong in recommending a cheaper better model to a higher priced half decent one. If you insist that dealers should be protected, why shouldn't the end user be getting a fair deal too?
 
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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
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I think you have missed the point here
An expert in scale models is as such someone who can put together a model exactly in scale 1.43 1:18 etc against the original and everything to do with that model is perfect as first as the eye can see colllectors dont usually look at a model they just buy it and put it on the shelf or where ever it normally goes.

Skilled engineers can use his eyes´and his model making engineering skills which might have the use of measurement devices to confirm this model is up to the original in relation to size corect curviture etc. This is done through team work the first man goes to the race meeting and draws the cars as in the race with a bit of luck the teams have sent the manufacturer the drawings of the body but if its too secret ie a lemans car F1 etc they will just have to roughly guess. The expert does not guess he knows

Thats whý when the industry looks at a competitors model they are the people who deceide what level the bar is at. I remember a thread not here which detailed 3x ferrari 430 bbr apparently came last . This is of course potentially damaging tó BBR with the new enzo due out soon. but there were some mistakes.

The upper level of the collector and I believe kwlung please excuse the spelling can also tell if the art work paint work is as original as the car was. speak to him about models he not only knows them all but I have been informed he is very good.
ie the new mazda 787B originality mistakes have been found on that car already and if it wasnt for forums such as this they cant be corrected. If it is of course worth it proberly not as most collectors or buyers will not notice this only diehards.

Ref mechnics I am sure you know the qualifications you need to change an exhaust or fan belt. Excecpt on a BMW you need a technition for that at least the owners want that so thats why BMW fitters are called technitions.

If you want to help me and I have asked nicely please read the question and give me your valued opinion it is wanted but please be constructive, and dont just put a smily in like the last one.

Thanks
 
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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
Hi Keep the points coming India helped alot.

Point on AUTOart pricing towards Exoto levels this is what we want to hear from you guys buying models because of price or brands why what do you want us to do.

thanks for that

India is an up and coming market est F1

dont hate me help me
Tell me what models do the indian market want in the future

The asian community here in the UK wants Mercs we need to know from the collector.

thanks
 
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Discussion Starter · #38 · (Edited)
First and foremost let me apologize to DX and its members for having to put up with this type of arrogant clown. I should have dealt with him from the first pm I read from him, my mistake. I promise not to make it again.

eeano, lets just put it all out there, shall we.

You have been here approximately 17 days and in that time, you have managed to attack my advertisers and the products they are selling(I will gladly post the pm for proof), inform the Forum Manager that he sucks at his job(I will gladly post the pm for proof), accuse the owner of Modellissimo of being a jokester who likes to deceive his customers(I will gladly post the pm for proof), accuse me of being the owner of a retail store in Florida(I will gladly post the pm for proof), accuse another member of being the owner of Modelissimo(I will gladly post the pm for proof) and now this fiasco.

I told you in a pm I sent to you earlier that your business skills are terrible to say the least and I now I entirely convinced of it. If you are doing any type of consulting for any company/manufacturer, they need to fire you as you are nothing more than a liability to them. If you knew anything of 'market branding' you wouldn't have exposed your lack of consumer relations skills.

I looked at your store stocklist and three of the companies you stock have representatives here, bet your candy a** that I emailed all three of them to see if your on their payroll. Two of them have since replied and said they know nothing of you. Until the third replies, I will give you the benefit of the doubt...but if your character is true to form, your misleading the audience of this topic with untruths about working with companies who is seeking information.

Your attempt at putting the business side of the hobby is at best comical, it all sounds like second hand information to me and one other company rep who happended to read this thread.

As I have told you before in previous pm's, I could care less what store you own, as I bow to no retailer, company or manufacturer. Therefore, I will not tolerate you coming into my house and disprespecting myself, the staff nor any member. Period not happening. No way, no how. Hear me?

You make a mention of not looking for sales, you stated quite the opposite in your pm, do I need to post it to refresh your memory?

I challenge you to provide a checkpoint for a "professional qualified opinion" and what action plan must be executed to evaluate a model. If your a professional qualified expert, you should have no problem rattling it off.

If you think that DX is just a meeting place for collectors your absolutely right. If you think we know nothing of the business of diecasts, your absolutely out of touch. I won't even grant the privelage of defending DX from your accusations as they are the furthest from the truth. But rest assured, simply because no member endorses one specific product, doesn't mean that we are oblivious to forming an evaluation on a model.

I do believe that you can fool some by claiming to be something that your not by putting together a few sentences on the economics of the hobby. But your in way over your head, trust me run for the hills while you still can as you have the slightest clue about business.

Your the type of person that truly hurts the hobby, a collector turned businessman who is a wannabe insider who thinks you can attack anyone with your limited knowledge.

I surely do feel sorry for your customers and I hope they all read this topic.
 

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You cannot go more further than the truth. Were the engineers at burago sniffing grass when they modelled the BMW Z3. Are the experts at Kyosho on dope when they model cars with abnormal looking tyres which are set deep into wheel wells. Don't tell me BMW never supplied kyosho with drawings. Where does expertise go then. And do you think collectors have potatoes instead of eyes. Do you make us out to be hoarders. I am sorry but you are wasting your time as well as ours. You are grossly underestimating collectors. I would say you would be better off researching potato chips sales than those of model cars. I am sure no one will mind a slightly different looking pringle. But we take the accuracies of our model cars very seriously.
 

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From reading your reply, you seem to be describing an "expert" not as an individual but as the staff from a diecast manufacturing company. You describe the expert as an individual who can out together a model in a near-perfect way. But if the "expert" is building a model, he already has a kit in hand that a company has recreated to a level of detail and accuracy they see appropriate (as governed by a business case.) Or do you mean an expert is someone who can build a model completely from scratch??

Also, please tell me if you are an expert or you are not. I would like to see evidence of your claim too.
 
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