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The fact that you would even contemplate such a conundrum is quite disturbing....
The Kyosho is a accurate replica.
The Mattel is a overpriced joke...
Crap as we know it - according to collectors...
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The Kyosho is a accurate replica.
The Mattel is a overpriced joke...
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And you say this with the authority of having both side-by-side to compare them and from being intimate with the 1:1? or do you base this on pictures you googled and pictures in a magazine?
I have been in a 1:1 and neither the Hot Wheels or the Kyosho is a near perfect replica of it (there is no such thing as a perfect replica in my book). Both have flaws and attributes.
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We seem to have a lot of Hotwheel apologists here...
I own the yellow F40 from Kyosho, and have held the Mattel version and examined it in in detail @ Exoticar in NYC...the latter was rubbish, even without needing to compare it to Kyosho.
Sure, there is no perfect model, but when did I say that?
The Kyo is just more accurate...with tons of spot-on details that the Mattel doesn't even have.
I am just stunned that anyone would contemplate equity between the two models.
BTW, I have seen many F40s up close and personal over my lifetime.
But, collectors do not need to actually 'be in' cars they evaluate, how many people have 'been in' a Bridcage or Ferrari 500F2, yet those are examples of universally appreciated models for accuracy...Your argument is invalid, a bit of a red herring if you will.
Finally, here is a comparo of the two models by a french diecast forum.
F40 comparo
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Far from it! If you read my other posts you can see that I don't apologize for Hot Wheels or any manufacturer, but at least I don't resort to bashing other models so I can feel good about my purchases.
Why can't the Kyosho stand on it's own merit? It is a fine model and I hope you enjoy yours but why does a budget car have to be slaughtered in order for a higher end to be praised?
I don't read French, but the my Spanish can pretty much tell me that the author is a bit biased toward the Kyosho but I assume he also likes the Hot Wheels by this: La f40 Elite reste un beau modèle, mais elle manque vraiment de finesse.. Also, why are some pictures swapped? The minute he started swapping the left/to right order, he lost me.
Like Lucianio and Dave said, it will be down to local retail and availability. I have a local retailer that sells Elite for less then $40 and no one sell Kyoshos locally so if I wanted one, it would be eBay where they are commanding $90+. in my humble opinion, the Kyosho is not $50 better than the Elite.
Which is really a mute point for me as I am quite happy with my old Hot Wheels version since this is not a significant car for MY collection.
Speaking of being stunned, I am stunned that anyone would shop at Exoticar! :giggle
I hope you are not basing the Elite retail based on their price.
click here to see the F-40s on eBay
BTW, congrats BoeDan430 on your purchase, I hope you enjoy it! :cheers and sorry for derailing your thread.
Maybe not for you, but for many here price is an issue. If you get 70 or 80% of the model for 60% of the price, yes, they can be compared and the Hot Wheels model will come out very well in that race.
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I don't 'shop' at Exoticar (why you make this assumption?).
I live in Manhattan, so occasionally I visit to look and see models that come in.
I do all my buying on ebay and online retailers.
I was just curious to see what these Elites looked like in person
The French forum link I provided is all one needs to make a foregone conclusion.
You do not need to read French to analyse side-by-side photos.
The poster has no agenda, other than offering a visual comparo.
If he's 'biased' towards Kyosho, how can u blame him?
He's biased towards quality and craftsmanship and accuracy.
I didn't know that the Elite now is $40. My apologies.
That is a more fair price for the Elite F40.
That is how much it should have been in the first place.
I was under the assumption that Elites still retail for $69, which is what I remember the F40 (and all other Ferrari's where being sold at).
I paid for my Yellow Kyo F40 from please support DX Advertisers! $69 shipped, that is less than what the Eite F40 was being offered at when it was launched.
I bash Hotwheels because I cannot believe they have the gall to charge $70 for their so called 'Elites'.
Lets not even talk about their Super Elites for $200-$300 (WTF?).
If this offends or upsets some posters, so be it....
But please, availability or distribution notwithstanding, lets not even say that the two are closely similar in quality or details.
Do you get them for free?
So price is an issue here.
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Price is an issue with me too. I don't compare apples to oranges.
Just because I can eat steak every once in a while, I don't ridicule the ones that can't.
As far as your dislike for Hot Wheels. in my humble opinion, they have a brilliant action plan and great marketing. I can see that as your type of "collector", that their actions do not agree with you. But look at the $.25 globs of Zamac that other "collectors" are willing to spend (some would say invest) 5-figures on just because it is a limited car. The Super Elites are an extension of that.
You don't like it, don't buy it! There are plenty of Hot Wheels aficionados that are willing to bite that bullet. Thank God I am not one of them!
Just because I can eat steak every once in a while, I don't ridicule the ones that can't.
As far as your dislike for Hot Wheels. in my humble opinion, they have a brilliant action plan and great marketing. I can see that as your type of "collector", that their actions do not agree with you. But look at the $.25 globs of Zamac that other "collectors" are willing to spend (some would say invest) 5-figures on just because it is a limited car. The Super Elites are an extension of that.
You don't like it, don't buy it! There are plenty of Hot Wheels aficionados that are willing to bite that bullet. Thank God I am not one of them!
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What???
No, I didn't get it for free (what's your point?)
But I wrote in my previous post, that I paid $69, that includes shipping, for my Yellow Kyo.
That is LESS, than what I would have paid for a F40 Elite when it first came out.
That's a slam dunk, innit?
I got it cheaper than the Elite, and its much better in all aspects.
So Kyosho would win also in the all important value metric.
You where quoting me when I was refering to availabiity and distribution, and by the looks of your very good website I might add, you are not having any particular problems sourcing models...
Kyosho's may be hard to find in S. America, yet the inverse is true in Asia, where Kyoshos are easier to find whilst Mattels are not as much. So there is variability that is not only confined to Kyosho, but all manufacturers worldwide.
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Why I cannot say that Hotwheels is crap?
Why does everything on a collector Bburago have to be feely-goody?
Do we just have endless threads of "Cool Model", or "Cool Pictures" or a nice healthy discussion once in a while LOL
Mattel have no ethics, their marketing is non-existent (considering their budget) and their value-proposition is pathetic...
Just take a look at what they are re-issuing as 'Elite', something that was acceptable in the 90s, but other companies have moved on .
They consider 10000 as 'limited' and the diff. btwn a Elite and Super Elite doesn't warrant a 200% price increase.
They are a large conglomerate which only cares about the bottom-line, peddling substandard models for $$$. They are laughing all the way to the bank with the Ferrari exclusive license
If these so-called Elites where originally issued for $40 max, then I would have no issue.
But now the latest Elite 460 Challenge is available @ Replicrz for $99...what a joke!
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Why I cannot say that Hotwheels is crap?
You can say anything you want, in my humble opinion, but you cross a line when you bash one to make you feel good, specially when you have not made a point and you are bashing for bashing's sake and to substantiate your purchase.
Why does everything on a collector Bburago have to be feely-goody? It is just a hobby after all, you should see me on some political Bburago!
Do we just have endless threads of "Cool Model", or "Cool Pictures" or a nice healthy discussion once in a while LOL I love healthy discussions like this one! If I wanted everyone to agree with me, I would just get more dogs!
Mattel have no ethics Have you seen what charities they give to and the Children foundations that they fund? Please show me what AUTOart gives to!, their marketing is non-existent I guess that sponsoring race cars, clothing lines... and one off the largest ad campaings is not considered marketing in your book(considering their budget) and their value-proposition is pathetic...Just like a real Ferrari...are they really worth $200K+? Pound-per-pound you are taking a bath! They are not worth the money if it relates to horsepower, comfort, reliability, practicality...not that I wouldn't own one if I could swing it.
Just take a look at what they are re-issuing as 'Elite', something that was acceptable in the 90s, but other companies have moved on. Brilliant in my book! why redesign a toy, when toys still sell!
They consider 10000 as 'limited' So, I have 1/20,000 Ertls that are Limited. :giggle That is limited to how many they are going to make and when you consider their world-wide market penetration, 10K is not that much. I don't care what language they speak, you show a kid the Hot Wheels logo and they know what it is-how is that for marketing???!!! They made a 1/10,000 white C6 Vette limited in 1/18, go see if you can find one! They were everywhere, but they vanished!
.and the diff. btwn a Elite and Super Elite doesn't warrant a 200% price increase. I agree with you, but to the hard core Hot Wheels collectors it does not matter as long as it is limited and it says so on the packaging
They are a large conglomerate which only cares about the bottom-line, as they should-they are responsible to stock holders-but go back to their charitable contributions. peddling substandard models for $$$.Most of my Hot Wheels I paid $10-$15 for, why is that $$$?? They are laughing all the way to the bank with the Ferrari exclusive license That's what I don't get, why is Ferrari the Saint in this? All the blame should be put on them!
If these so-called Elites where originally issued for $40 max, then I would have no issue. I told you that a local retailer sells some Elites for sub-$40 and he shared the wholesale price with me. I can't share it, but I can tell you that there is more markup on these than the industry standard. Why don't you blame the retailers that may be gouging you and not Hot Wheels?
But now the latest Elite 460 Challenge is available @ Replicrz for $99...what a joke! Why are 1:1 GT-500s being sold for $60-$70K? Because they can! Capitalism at it's best! :cheers
You can say anything you want, in my humble opinion, but you cross a line when you bash one to make you feel good, specially when you have not made a point and you are bashing for bashing's sake and to substantiate your purchase.
Why does everything on a collector Bburago have to be feely-goody? It is just a hobby after all, you should see me on some political Bburago!
Do we just have endless threads of "Cool Model", or "Cool Pictures" or a nice healthy discussion once in a while LOL I love healthy discussions like this one! If I wanted everyone to agree with me, I would just get more dogs!
Mattel have no ethics Have you seen what charities they give to and the Children foundations that they fund? Please show me what AUTOart gives to!, their marketing is non-existent I guess that sponsoring race cars, clothing lines... and one off the largest ad campaings is not considered marketing in your book(considering their budget) and their value-proposition is pathetic...Just like a real Ferrari...are they really worth $200K+? Pound-per-pound you are taking a bath! They are not worth the money if it relates to horsepower, comfort, reliability, practicality...not that I wouldn't own one if I could swing it.
Just take a look at what they are re-issuing as 'Elite', something that was acceptable in the 90s, but other companies have moved on. Brilliant in my book! why redesign a toy, when toys still sell!
They consider 10000 as 'limited' So, I have 1/20,000 Ertls that are Limited. :giggle That is limited to how many they are going to make and when you consider their world-wide market penetration, 10K is not that much. I don't care what language they speak, you show a kid the Hot Wheels logo and they know what it is-how is that for marketing???!!! They made a 1/10,000 white C6 Vette limited in 1/18, go see if you can find one! They were everywhere, but they vanished!
.and the diff. btwn a Elite and Super Elite doesn't warrant a 200% price increase. I agree with you, but to the hard core Hot Wheels collectors it does not matter as long as it is limited and it says so on the packaging
They are a large conglomerate which only cares about the bottom-line, as they should-they are responsible to stock holders-but go back to their charitable contributions. peddling substandard models for $$$.Most of my Hot Wheels I paid $10-$15 for, why is that $$$?? They are laughing all the way to the bank with the Ferrari exclusive license That's what I don't get, why is Ferrari the Saint in this? All the blame should be put on them!
If these so-called Elites where originally issued for $40 max, then I would have no issue. I told you that a local retailer sells some Elites for sub-$40 and he shared the wholesale price with me. I can't share it, but I can tell you that there is more markup on these than the industry standard. Why don't you blame the retailers that may be gouging you and not Hot Wheels?
But now the latest Elite 460 Challenge is available @ Replicrz for $99...what a joke! Why are 1:1 GT-500s being sold for $60-$70K? Because they can! Capitalism at it's best! :cheers
Sourcing or finding a model is not a problem, as long as you have web access,so i don't think there's great relevance with that issue. Is $69 the regular price on the Kyosho? I haven't seen them that cheap but I have seen the Elite for 30 something. I say again, you get 80% of the car for half the price. Doing that math the Elite is better.
If you haven't understood my point yet, here it is again: price is important. Period. If you wanna talk about which one is better, CMC's or Exoto's 500 F2, then it's a level discussion, since both are basically at the same price. But not here. There's a huge price difference in the case of the F40. If the Kyosho was as cheap as the Elite I wouldn't be arguing with you about which one is the best buy.
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Where can you get the F40 Elite for $40 or $30? I've never seen them for under $60. Even the ebay auctions that start at $1 end up for around $60. :confused
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I've compared the red Elite and the red Kyosho side by side yesterday and guys.....the Kyosho is a lot better!
I paid $50 for the Elite and $90 for the Kyosho, not interested in debating the quality/price ratio.
The Kyosho is just a better model if you love the F40!
I paid $50 for the Elite and $90 for the Kyosho, not interested in debating the quality/price ratio.
The Kyosho is just a better model if you love the F40!
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The kyosho and elite are near in price from what I can find. I've noticed that the Kyosho has gone down in price on the places I've looked from $100+ to around $70 to $80. If you look at the Hot Wheels Elite at online stores, the cheapest you would find is $55. Most places charge about $70, some charge $60. Then again, I'm saying what I've found myself in states & canada. In Europe or south america or somewhere else in the world, prices might be much different.
Anyway, I do agree that the Kyosho doesn't seem that much better from the pictures I've seen. Maybe a little better. I'm going to buy the Kyosho myself for the opening front lights, that's the feature that sold me and I think it's an OK price. Looks like it's a bit under regular Kyosho quality tho.. compared to my M5 and M6 anyway, which were cheaper in comparison.
Anyway, I do agree that the Kyosho doesn't seem that much better from the pictures I've seen. Maybe a little better. I'm going to buy the Kyosho myself for the opening front lights, that's the feature that sold me and I think it's an OK price. Looks like it's a bit under regular Kyosho quality tho.. compared to my M5 and M6 anyway, which were cheaper in comparison.
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Thank you. 'Nuff said...
I cannot believe that there is even a debate.
To be sure, it really seems that the Kyo and Eilte are in the same price range, which is a huge knock off the Elite, considering how much better the Kyo is...
So what are you doing here?
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Usually, to have a debate two or more side need to make a point, which in my opinion, you have not. Please take the time to read my post above and point if you do not agree with any of it.
I will make this point: I paid $10 for the old Hot Wheels F-40 and I got more than my money's worth. If I were to purchase a "better" one, I could get an Elite for $40-$50 (most likely less) and I would feel that it is about right-but why spend the money since I have one and I could buy a Hot Wheels/61 instead with the money. If I really wanted the best, the $90 Kyosho would be it, but when I got it home, I would see that I could had gotten the Elite AND perhaps a HW61 with the $40 difference!
Why is so hard to understand that some of us are perfectly happy with a "good" rendition of a model??? Specially one of a car that in MY collecting scheme, is not that important.
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Enjoying diecasts generally! I cannot believe all the fuzz debating "Which is really the best"! The Kyosho is best, the Elite is good if you do not like the F40 enough to accept the price tag. Some of the nitpicking around models here are soon down to the level of "they use child laborers to produce the wheels", "the paint may be poisonous if the sunlight hits it in the right angle".
The reason why I don't want to go into a debate with you and AL is because you guys are so much more passionate about this topic than I'll ever be. I would never have the spark to convince you guys as you seem to have already made up your mind without having seen the models side by side. I just shake my head sometimes when I see the immense discussions related to something strictly subjective. I'm not bashing the Elite, I think it's a great model, but not as great as the Kyosho. And if it's true, like claimed in this thread, that they are just $10-20 different in price, the Kyosho is worth the money.
Well now I must go as I have to put black wheels on a model.
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The Kyosho is $70 at please support DX Advertisers! with free shipping and everywhere I look the Elite F40 is $60 to $70. If you're lucky, you'll get it for $50 + shipping on ebay. The price difference discussion is irrelevant. You'd be dumb not to get it from please support DX Advertisers! if you're from states. The places that want $90+ most likely want $70 for the Elite as well so again not that much of a difference.
If you already have the Hot Wheels Elite, then it would make sense not to buy the Kyosho.
If you already have the Hot Wheels Elite, then it would make sense not to buy the Kyosho.
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