[g3org3y]

I never understood the statement "resin companies do the models that would never have been done in diecast". Well that is just not really a statement that can be supported by any facts. If the resin companies had not popped up by the dozens, and had diecast remained the standard in model making as it was, I am sure many of the models, which to now have only been offered in resin, would have been done in diecast. Had collectors not been so welcoming of resin in the first place, we would probably have gotten most of those previously mentioned "resin only" models in diecast, by default.

I disagree. I see no inclination from the diecast crowd (AutoArt, Minichamps etc) to listen to their customers in the same way Otto or GT Spirit do. If it wasn't for Otto, I would still be waiting for Alpina 1/18s to this day.

Otto in particular make rather 'out there' and unexpected models which fill gaps no other manufacturers seem to be capable of (or have no desire to fill). I suspect it's down to tooling and cost of manufacturing. Minichamps in particular however has a penchant for re-releases of old moulds in with new liveries with no improvement in detail and higher prices.

 

[littlerockshhd]

Josh there is no way a model like this one was getting made in diecast.

 

[Josh]

I never understood the statement "resin companies do the models that would never have been done in diecast". Well that is just not really a statement that can be supported by any facts. If the resin companies had not popped up by the dozens, and had diecast remained the standard in model making as it was, I am sure many of the models, which to now have only been offered in resin, would have been done in diecast. Had collectors not been so welcoming of resin in the first place, we would probably have gotten most of those previously mentioned "resin only" models in diecast, by default.

I disagree. I see no inclination from the diecast crowd (AutoArt, Minichamps etc) to listen to their customers in the same way Otto or GT Spirit do. If it wasn't for Otto, I would still be waiting for Alpina 1/18s to this day.

Otto in particular make rather 'out there' and unexpected models which fill gaps no other manufacturers seem to be capable of (or have no desire to fill). I suspect it's down to tooling and cost of manufacturing. Minichamps in particular however has a penchant for re-releases of old moulds in with new liveries with no improvement in detail and higher prices.
[/quote]

What diecast crowd? There are not any left LOL!

Like I said I just feel like if resin had not come into focus in the first place, more diecast companies would have instead. Like that Autocraft company that just put out a really nice looking model of the Lykan thingie. Talk about an offbeat car, they only built like 6 or 7 total! Yet there is a wonderful diecast opening model and under 100 bucks no less. Once the door was opened by collectors welcoming sealed models, made from a cheaper, inferior material (resin by definition is THE cheapest material used in manufacturing physical goods, with the intended purpose of long term ownership), new diecast companies went bye bye. Who's to say Otto, GTS, BOS, and others would not have been diecast companies if collectors had not welcomed Spark and BBR with such open arms? Again just my two cents. I am in no way blaming collectors such as yourself for the demise of the diecast industry. It was probably gonna happen anyways considering the poor leadership of Autoart and PMA LOL!

 

[Josh]

Josh there is no way a model like this one was getting made in diecast.

Why not? These were done in diecast.

 

[littlerockshhd]

Yeah, and two out of three those companies went under..and at the rate AUTOart is going???...LOL! Resin really does allow for niche models to be made quickly and at a low cost..they are basically just shells on wheels...The last two years of resin models would have taken two lifetimes of R&D, if they were fully opening die cast models... In a way, Resin models are kind of like Fast Food... fast, cheap (cheaper) and tasty, but are not nearly as satisfying as a good ole fashioned well prepared die-cast.

 

[winstoncds]

Yeah, and two out of three those companies went under..and at the rate AUTOart is going???...LOL! Resin really does allow for niche models to be made quickly and at a low cost..they are basically just shells on wheels...The last two years of resin models would have taken two lifetimes of R&D, if they were fully opening die cast models... In a way, Resin models are kind of like Fast Food... fast, cheap (cheaper) and tasty, but are not nearly as satisfying as a good ole fashioned well prepared die-cast.

You pretty much summed it all. Early last decade we were asking the model makers to move from doglegs to proper door mechanisms. 10 years later we are adding black wash to body panels on resin models to mimic gaps. Are we moving forward or backward.

 

[StratosWRC]

Unfortunately if we keep wanting the prices to stay constant, we'll move further and further backwards. CMC keep their detail level constant and look at their prices. Went from $200 to $600 here in canada in a matter of 5 years. Autoarts went up from $150 to $300 in the same span of time, but the parts count and the materials used both took a big hit.

 

[drivinghermad]

As i speak in 1/12 tongue,without Resin there is just the odd 1/12 Diecast/Copper model coming out in this scale(Kyosho 1/12 Rolls Royce-Diecast,CMC 1/12 Alfa 8C-Copper)Around 20 Resins are coming out that i will be looking to buy.A big swing from a few years ago,i see in 1/12 -resin is here to stay.

 

[littlerockshhd]

Resin is definitely here to stay... Unless they invent something cheaper or easier material to work with... We've definitely seen a boom in 1/12 and tuner models since resin has come on the seen... Hopefully there will be some companies that make both resin and die-cast models, as both have a place in my collection.

 

[Josh]

I have had one lonely resin for about three years now. I am pretty sure the Zonda F and XJ220 will be joining him if they are indeed released, and possibly some of those cool Aston's like the old Vantage Zagato, O and the Disco Alfa Romeo! I do like that the models are at least being done, but paying over $150 for a sealed resin when I remember sub $100 high quality diecast from just about every model company, makes my wallet be like

 

[lateapex]

Yeah, and two out of three those companies went under..and at the rate AUTOart is going???...LOL! Resin really does allow for niche models to be made quickly and at a low cost..they are basically just shells on wheels...The last two years of resin models would have taken two lifetimes of R&D, if they were fully opening die cast models... In a way, Resin models are kind of like Fast Food... fast, cheap (cheaper) and tasty, but are not nearly as satisfying as a good ole fashioned well prepared die-cast.

You pretty much summed it all. Early last decade we were asking the model makers to move from doglegs to proper door mechanisms. 10 years later we are adding black wash to body panels on resin models to mimic gaps. Are we moving forward or backward.
[/quote]

Both of those posts are excellent, and says it all really.

 

[Rust-MyEnemy]

You pretty much summed it all. Early last decade we were asking the model makers to move from doglegs to proper door mechanisms. 10 years later we are adding black wash to body panels on resin models to mimic gaps. Are we moving forward or backward.

It's the lack of panel gaps more than anything else that kills resins stone dead for me. That and the way that 90% of the cars I'm interested have no detailing to any side pillars (apart from the first and last) and windows made from the same film that Bburago use for windows in the boxes that their £20 diecast models come in.

I'm all for increased choice, but I'm more than happy to limit my die-cast collecting solely to those models that happen to be available. I don't tend to display my models because I don't have space. I get them out of the box, hold them, play with them, inspect them, take photos, write about them and then store them until next time I do the same again.

To me, a sealed model is like a book that you can't open and read the words.

 

[protzenegger]

It's the lack of panel gaps more than anything else that kills resins stone dead for me. That and the way that 90% of the cars I'm interested have no detailing to any side pillars (apart from the first and last) and windows made from the same film that Bburago use for windows in the boxes that their £20 diecast models come in.
...
To me, a sealed model is like a book that you can't open and read the words.

Wonderful analogy! 1000X this. The terrible window film irritates me even more than the lack of panel gaps - and that's before we get into the whole discussion about the windows delaminating from the body.

I do have a resin BBR Maserati Levante, but only because I was one of the exterior designers on that project and didn't have the option of a diecast. The saddest thing is that it isn't even cheap, averaging around $300.

Disclaimer: I collect mostly in 1:43 to save space and money (and because sometimes the 1:43s are more accurate than anything I can find in 1:18), so I have to contend with sealed resin being the go-to if I want a nicely detailed model. When dealing with a scale that small, I have to admit I'd rather have a sealed body than huge panel gaps and loss of accuracy for the sake of a few opening parts.

Having said that, with AutoArt releasing things like the crazy detailed Countach 5000S and McLaren F1 in 1:43 diecast with billionaire doors and everything at very reasonable prices, the biggest irony would be if we start seeing opening parts make their way into 1:43 models as they become harder to find in 1:18. Could just be wishful thinking though...

But yeah, for 1:18s it's diecast or bust.

 

[Ztune]

I do much prefer the material of diecast as it feels like it will last a lifetime. About 20% of my collection at present is resin and only because no good alternative diecasts are offered (i.e. my Bentley GT3 race cars, F50 GT, 288 GTO Evo, etc).

As far as the window issue, I do agree that the resin cars are flimsy (physically) and much more fragile than in diecast cars, but I think they are a lot more realistic. They're incredibly thin and likely more realistic in-scale considering it compared to the diecast, which have very thick windows. The light reflectivity on my resin models windows look way more realistic imo. The panel gaps are simulated and very fine lines and what a 1/18 panel gap should look like unlike most diecast which are gigantic by comparison and look completely out of scale.

My only issue with resin so far is that it's so new we're not sure how it will hold up longterm (20+ years). I'm hoping they last, but we'll see. If/when a diecast company steps up and provides a good alternative to the resins I have, I'll convert them over.

 

[edco1ecs]

I prefer diecast. Have yet to buy resin. The closest thing to sealed body I have is a Solido GT40 #16 gorgeous green.
The doors open, very detailed interion. Front and back bonets are sealed. A very nice model, it is on my desk and not shelved with the rest of the collection. Howver, when set next to Auto Art dieast GT40 model of GranTurismo #4 Carbon fiber car there is no contest. The Auto Art deatil of engine, chasis, front cooling chamber, interior, antennae, markings,
accurate stance on wheels, and overall excellence dwarfs the Solido. The interactivity of diecast models with openingfs and inside detail is dramaticcompared to the half sealed body resin. To be fair the Auto Art was about $200 and the Solido about $50. I acquired both at early release dates. If I had a highly detailed 1/18 GT40 1969 Gulf Livery in seled body resin, I doubt I would get much satisfaction out of it. Resin is another word for plastic. Plastic is a short cut. I have worked in tool and die. High quality resin is ABS. acrylic butyl styrate. The industry does not advertise the real reason fro resin models. The molds can be made out of aluminum rather than the heat treated H13 steel needed for diecast. The tooling cost for aluminum molds can be 33% of steel. My problem with resin. You made it at a great savings. Why not pass the savings on to the collector? Outsized profits. I guess I know to much, but they cannot sell me a seale body plastic model car for $200.

 

[edco1ecs]

Just joined. wanted to comment on the resin v diecast thread, it is very old. I would have started a new thread but cannot find where and how to do that. My post needs editing. Sorry for the rough draft erors, cannot find a way to edit. I stumbled across this site and I think there is a lot of value for the diecast collector.. Glad to have joined.

Ed C

 

[Craig]

No, that's fine one thread discussing it is all we need.

 

[cwbs]

Just joined. wanted to comment on the resin v diecast thread, it is very old. I would have started a new thread but cannot find where and how to do that. My post needs editing. Sorry for the rough draft erors, cannot find a way to edit. I stumbled across this site and I think there is a lot of value for the diecast collector.. Glad to have joined.
Ed C

Hello and welcome!

Here's how you can edit your post: FAQ
Just scroll down until you see the "Edit" section.

I have worked in tool and die. High quality resin is ABS. acrylic butyl styrate. The industry does not advertise the real reason fro resin models. The molds can be made out of aluminum rather than the heat treated H13 steel needed for diecast. The tooling cost for aluminum molds can be 33% of steel. My problem with resin. You made it at a great savings. Why not pass the savings on to the collector? Outsized profits. I guess I know to much, but they cannot sell me a seale body plastic model car for $200.

Some great insight into the "how it's made" part of it, good to know!

And I agree the savings should passed on to us collectors, but you know, (bad) consumer habits is what dictate the prices, unfortunatelly.

 

[edco1ecs]

Hello and welcome!

Here's how you can edit your post: FAQ
Just scroll down until you see the "Edit" section.

Some great insight into the "how it's made" part of it, good to know!

And I agree the savings should passed on to us collectors, but you know, (bad) consumer habits is what dictate the prices, unfortunately.

Thanks for the reply. Permit me to restate parts of my post I would have edited. The Solido GT40 is die-cast not resin,
the forward and rear body is sealed. Imagining the doors are sealed also is the best I can do to simulate what a full sealed body resin car would feel like. In satisfaction of ownership I grade it about a third of what the Auto Art die-cast GT40 gives. The Solido still has the nice metal weight, but there is no comparison with the more complex model satisfaction wise. Defining mold making cost; resin flows at about 545 degrees, aluminum melts at 1100 degrees.
That is why plastic molds can be made out of aluminum. Die-cast metal flows well above 1200 degrees, the molds have to be steel. Considering the longer lead time, labor, and material costs in an H13 steel mold it is more like five to six times more expensive than an aluminum mold built for resign. Aluminum is far easier to polish to get the body finish.
A lot of labor goes into polishing molds to a mirror finish. Die-cast is more durable. IMO plastic is plastic and were there never die-cast metal cars I doubt I would have built the collection I have. The industry has turned to sealed body resin at prices above what I paid for my best die-cast items. I am not making the turn with the industry.

 

[Scuddy]

If I like the subject, I’ll buy it whether it’s diecast or resin. But, that’s partly because the models in resin that I like are at what’s an acceptable price point to me. Maybe I’d feel different spending £300 on one. I think sealed resins are about 15% of my collection (rough guess); I think I have enough opening models to enjoy to counter the sealed ones

Initially, there is more surprise and delight with an opening model for sure. But, over time, I can’t say I necessarily enjoy an opening diecast more than a sealed one.

I’ll tell you this, though. When looking at my existing collection, I’m happier to pick up and look at a sealed resin than I am to pick up an opening diecast and spot more paint rash. :-(