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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just curious to know - even though I have an idea.

When a model is released as a LE, SE, concept/ production or even under a specific line that warrants a substantial price. Do you think the price of the original model should decrease?

In the few cases of this scenario, I have not seen many if any price decreases, although its the first thought that would cross someones mind.

I'll use the various Kwan GT3 R(or whatever, AUTOart is calling them) as an example. I do believe the original Kwan is still selling for more than the rereleased versions.

A part of me kinda of wishes the prices would be discounted, but I understand both sides of the argument when a collector who purchased the original absolutely dispises a rerelease if they have paid top dollar initially.

So whats your thoughts...
 

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You mean RRP?

Well, if a car is re-released, I think the re-release should not be more than the original. It should also differ in some way.

An example from my area: The Minichamps Rossi 2001 Mugello bike. £150+ on ebay. They've made a 'dirty' version as a re-release. The original bike should still hold it's value, as it's a clean version, so both parties should be happy. Same with the Rossi 2000 bike. £300+ on the second hand market. The re-release, at normal RRP, is the bike repliced for the first race Rossi scored points on it. Thus, the original bike is different, and will still hold value.

Re-releasing the same model, after a 'limited' or 'special' run isn't really on. I'd feel pretty damn cheated if I'd paid a lot of money for a 'limited' edition, for a company to increase that edition.

I guess if originals are still left, they will sell them at RRP, as that's what it's there for. Second hand market, otoh, will dictate much different prices.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Here its MSRP - but I guess its the same animal all the same.

My question was more towards do you feel the price of the original model be lowered?
 

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No. Why should it be?

If a company re-release X, then they can re-release it at whatever price they want. I think it's unfair on buyers of the original release, however, to see the price they paid on the original release reduced because of the new re-release.

I doubt you'd make many fans doing that.

Do companies in the diecast market do that?
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Of course diecast companies have done it, I listed the Kwan Porsche from AUTOart as an example. In that example, the original is still selling for good money.

The diecast market is the only market that I know of that frowns upon this.

Pretty much in every other industry, this is common.

Ever get a good deal on that DVD player because the newer version was just released. Same with cars, when the upcoming model year is released, dealers offer major rebates on the outgoing year.

This really wasn't the road the question was meant to go down, but since it did - why shouldn't they be discounted.

Thanks for adding food for thought :lol
 

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While this is certainly true, industries such as DVD manufacturing probably should be considered separately from diecast cars, as the latter would be seen as a collectible (compared to a DVD player, which would just be a consumer item). Not saying there is no logic to the argument, but I would venture guess that similar economic elements would be in play with other "collectibles" as well.
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
No doubt about them being different industries. I just used that as a comparison, same as with the automobiles.

Diecasts being collectables is similar to a person who has a collection of DVD's, albeit, both provide enjoyment in a different manner.

I really wonder why this diecast industry is soooooooooooo different from so many other industries.
 

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I imagine that in the case of consumer items like the DVD player, companies lower the price on an older model just to shift it. They simply want to attract a buyer who is not too worried about exactly what DVD player they are getting, and are just happy to pick one up relatively cheaply.

Diecast is different. Apart from a few casual collectors who pick up Hot Wheels in their supermarket, we are fairly well informed, we know what we want, and if a product is sought after, I guess the companies would be daft to reduce the price. It takes a buyer and a seller to make a market. Just because a model is re-released or a SE comes out, doesn't mean that the companies will struggle to shift the old one at the same price.
 

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I feel that's why there is not price decrease on some such as the Kwan, I do know what you mean when you said DVD, as this hobby is classed at collectible & that word is used on some DVD's, "collectors edition" DVD's & it's them milking the money out of a movie, yes it does sound familiar, company's milk moulds of most cars.

Darrick I say YES to your question, as I want to spend less on some cars & it would make me ad some I will not buy due to saving money where I can & buying what I can afford.
But retailers will not drop prices on cars that sell fast, even tho they do save on re-releases as its a few minor changes to it & it is pumping out more of the same car, so they bring out a similar car to keep the money coming in until we get what we all know a FLOOD.

This is sure a funny industry & one I have a hard time trying to figure out.

But I do know is us collectors keep buying them, even tho a 2000 LE in one colour is also a 2000 LE in another 3 or 4 colours of 2000.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I really don't think the diecast hobby is much different from any other - things are just acted out in a different manner.

Take GMP for instance, they released their Mustang LX Convertible not too long ago with a retail price of $90+.

Now if you join their members club for $25 you get the same exact car with your membership plus shipping. Somone please correct me on the details if I missed any.

In this particular case, yes/no they are driving the pices down on their own product and consumers are taking advantage of it. Just like any other industry.

And being GMP has mastered the technique of reusing molds, the next Mustang off this mold will be just as hot.

Imagine how those who paid full retail for this car a few months ago must feel - I would say not too good.

But just like every other industry - its the nature of the beast.

Is this hobby an exception to that rule?
 

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I understand their frustration, but I don't feel too sorry for anybody who pays a premium for a "limited edition" model only to find it's not limited a year or two later. If they paid more than MSRP for it just because of it's (real or artificial) rarity they've made a concious decision to overpay. If they paid an inflated MSRP because it's a supposedly limited run, once again nobody forced them to, and unless they have proof that the manufacturer destroyed the molds, they should expect them to be re-used somewhere down the line. If a manufacturer promises one of it's products will never be duplicated exactly and then it does, that's fraud, and we have laws to deal with that, but otherwise the buyer should expect anything.

Basically what I'm trying to say is this is just like anything else in a capitalist system...the market sets the price. If the consumer thinks it's too high, all he has to do is say no. If he says yes and is unhappy with his decision a year later, well, maybe he shouldn't have said yes.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Great post John.

Buyers do make a concious decision to buy - even if the price is based on an alledged rarity or LE.

And I think a lot of manufacturers know collectors will buy without questions being asked. I think this is separates this hobby from any other industry.

I have yet to figure the hobby out in this regards.

But as I originally asked the question - I can see both sides of the argument.

But looking at it from a realistic point of view -just like any other market I spend my money in - I am more of the notion that the price on the original should drop if there is a rerelease.

This topic seems to have a few different heads :giggle
 

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Darrick, to stick to that exact question, I don't know that the price should fall for certain. It definitely depends on the situation.

If the re-release is absolutely identical to the original, then the market will surely determine one price give or take a few dollars for that model, be it from the first production run or a latter one. If one of the runs was supposedly limited, that does add something else to the equation, but I wouldn't like to try and understand the effect that it has.

If the re-release is the same basic mold but altered in some way (even just the race number or event in a season), again I think the price need not fall on the original, because collectors will distinguish between the two, and effectively there will be two separate markets, each determining their own price point.

I hope I understood the question at least in part - I don't claim to be a businessman, but what I said makes sense in my mind :cheers
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Dave,

That makes sense to me - it actually answers the original question. But the topic had a few different questions spring up. All legitimate too.
 

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So far, Dave's point is the situation that most makes sense to me. I would expect for the market to behave that exact way, since we're talking about industry-made collectables.
 

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I think that the re-release of the limited series is a good thing. At least to those that can't afford the prices that original release are going for. There will be the 'purists' that will only want the original release and will not think twice about paying the premium $ for them even after the re-releases are on the market.

Will this bring down the price of the original release, it most definately will. To those who bought the original release, do you regret spending the big money you spent when you got yours? To you it was a have to have item at the time (and hopefully still is). Sorry to say this but you're going to have to deal with it. It may not be the popular thing to say but that's the facts. This will definately cuase hard feelings with those who buy for later resell value, but that's business. To everyone who doesn't have one of the original releases, you got lucky!

Speaking of business, diecast manufacturers have to capitalize on the market otherwise they would go bankrupt. I can only speculate that the Kwan car (for example) would have a limited buyers market so they only made so many. Now after a huge success, they realize that there is a much bigger calling for the car and now want to produce more since they can do it without losing money on the venture. As much as we'd like them to be more sensitive to collectors feelings, they have a business to run.

It does suck that many of you spent big money for something that you thought was never going to be produced again. But what can you do? The only thing the I can see is that you let the company know your feelings toward the re-release. i don't know what kind of answer you'd get though.

Chalk it up to being in the right hobby at the wrong time??? Wasn't the hunt and the kill worth it? Yeah it would have been nice to save the extra money on what will now be available on every diecast resellers shelves or e-store but you don't the personal satifaction, the story of tracking YOURS down and what YOU went through to get one of the originals! This is something that the re-release buyers will never have!!!

:cheers
Sean
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I don't think the Kwan ever had a market prior to its release. Can someone confirm or deny if Charles Kwan ever had a model car prior to the AUTOart version :feedback

Just asking some questions about Mr Kwan, not to many people were familiar with him other than a link on the internet.

I think in that instance it was more about AUTOart releasing a LE model of a series that garnered much attention and the rest is history.

I do agree about rereleases opening the market for those who didn't get the chance of ownership the first go round.
 

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Without a doubt in that case. I'm not an encyclopedia about racing, but I'm far from clueless, and I never heard his name before that model. I'm positive it was a hit just because it was a "LE" porker from AUTOart. If Maisto had released it in their GT line I doubt it would had made such a splash.
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Yeah, the Kwan showed collectors at their "spending" worse. :help

I'm not here to tell anyone why they should collect, but the Kwan revealed that some collect for all the wrong reasons. :my2cents
 

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Darrick, some collectors are more selective about their buyings then others, and to that you also have to factor in the size of each one's budget. For instance, if I had tons of money and shelf space was no problem, I could think of buying the Kwan, as I would have possibly bought the rest of the series. But since my budget and space are very strict, I have to choose well what I will buy. Some collectors don't have those constraints, so they could buy it without remorse later.
 
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